Brexit, the economy and house prices (Part 3)

Rusty_Shackleton

andrewf75 wrote: »

I don't read this section much so I wasn't aware of those. I can believe that there would be those switching that way as the behaviour of "remoaners" has been embarrassing. Many times in debates, I have found I have more in common with moderate leave voters than those remainers who refuse to acknowledge the result.

I was just saying that I hadn't encountered any. Now I know they exit, but I still think many more would switch from leave to remain.

I don't think many of them *genuinely* exist. I think there are plenty of leave voters online basically astroturfing with claims they would now switch (in fact go BTL on tabloids or even the guardian and BBC, you'll see broken English that looks an awful lot like Russian trolls on every single Brexit article). Then there are those on this thread who look like they're using the claim in some bizarre attempt to silence dissent by claiming those they disagree with are turning them to the other side. I don't think these people are very representative of voters generally, so your original point was probably spot on!

In my day to day life, very few people would change their vote - people have dug their heels in. The few exceptions (and I mean 4 or 5 people) have been leave voters who wanted NHS money and who wanted to protest, and now openly regret that their actions had consequences.

andrewf75

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Which thread? I'll take a look.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5702514

third post

Conrad

Several callers to LBC tell us our planes will all be grounded the day we leave.



Cape Verde was almost the poorest nation on Earth until recently, and still poor, yet they can fly into Paris, but somehow British Airways will be banned lol, we simply cannot be trusted with aircraft maintenance and regulation, heyalp heyalp, this is all too difficult!



Cape Verde

• TACV is the national airline of Cape Verde, with 10 domestic destinations on offer. It also offers several international routes, including flights to Paris, Lisbon and Amsterdam.

andrewf75

Rusty_Shackleton wrote: »

I don't think many of them *genuinely* exist. I think there are plenty of leave voters online basically astroturfing with claims they would now switch (in fact go BTL on tabloids or even the guardian and BBC, you'll see broken English that looks an awful lot like Russian trolls on every single Brexit article). Then there are those on this thread who look like they're using the claim in some bizarre attempt to silence dissent by claiming those they disagree with are turning them to the other side. I don't think these people are very representative of voters generally, so your original point was probably spot on!

In my day to day life, very few people would change their vote - people have dug their heels in. The few exceptions (and I mean 4 or 5 people) have been leave voters who wanted NHS money and who wanted to protest, and now openly regret that their actions had consequences.

Maybe, internet debate attracts extreme views and its hard to tell.

I agree very few people would change their vote, because many of both sides have such an entrenched view now. Thats why my prediction was a narrow result again just swinging the other way slightly. I guess a lot depends who the non-voters were, which still intrigues me to be honest.

TrickyTree83

Rusty_Shackleton wrote: »

I don't think many of them *genuinely* exist. I think there are plenty of leave voters online basically astroturfing with claims they would now switch (in fact go BTL on tabloids or even the guardian and BBC, you'll see broken English that looks an awful lot like Russian trolls on every single Brexit article). Then there are those on this thread who look like they're using the claim in some bizarre attempt to silence dissent by claiming those they disagree with are turning them to the other side. I don't think these people are very representative of voters generally, so your original point was probably spot on!

In my day to day life, very few people would change their vote - people have dug their heels in. The few exceptions (and I mean 4 or 5 people) have been leave voters who wanted NHS money and who wanted to protest, and now openly regret that their actions had consequences.

If we're doing anecdotal evidence I've not met one leave to remainer, multiple going the other way though. Not a troll or a lie, genuinely. Perhaps where we live impacts the churn.

Rusty_Shackleton

Conrad wrote: »

I see no evidence that prospering, well respected independent nations suffer any kind of goodwill deficit.

Other nations don't have foreign secretary's trying to offend at every opportunity. Other nations don't secure major concessions, arguably better than those given to anyone else, and then have a PM come back demanding more to heal internal party divides.

Need I go on? You must surely be able to see that from the perspective of the EU, the UK is being a massive pain in the a**e? Do you think in negotiating CETA that Canada behaved like the UK is currently?

andrewf75

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

If we're doing anecdotal evidence I've not met one leave to remainer, multiple going the other way though. Not a troll or a lie, genuinely. Perhaps where we live impacts the churn.

More to the point as a leave voter you're only going to hear from those who have switched to your side and same goes for me as a remainer.

Rusty_Shackleton

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

If we're doing anecdotal evidence I've not met one leave to remainer, multiple going the other way though. Not a troll or a lie, genuinely. Perhaps where we live impacts the churn.

It could well be None of what I said was meant to suggest people here are trolls or astroturfers - moderated forum + being able to see peoples diverse posting history makes it fairly difficult for anyone to pass off BS. Take a look BTL on newspapers though and it's astounding. BTL on Independent is clearly populated by a lot of Russians when it comes to Brexit and Trump... and North Koreans on any NK related story, they really are a good laugh!

Arklight

Conrad wrote: »

On one hand you imply we were barely in and had full sovereignty, on the other we're so closely enmeshed by '40 yrs of rules and dynamics' that it's an impossible extrication.

Strewth. It's not 40 years of rules ans dynamics Conrad, it's hundreds of years.


You lot seem to think Europe popped up like a bouncy castle you didn't want to go on in the 70s. But you were made to wear the wrist band anyway.


We are part of Europe, whether you like it or not, and the majority of Europe is collaborating under the EU.


We had an amazing deal in this arrangement. Opt outs for everything, vetos, rebates, and access to the world's biggest market. All shot to hell.

Arklight

Conrad wrote: »

I see no evidence that prospering, well respected independent nations suffer any kind of goodwill deficit...

No of course not. Like all Leave supporters you see nothing other than what you want to see.


Aircraft carriers with imaginary planes, bendy bananas once more and a bold future of sailing off to the Commonwealth to collaborate with a lot of countries who can't stand us because we put their grandparents in concentration camps.