Brexit, the economy and house prices (Part 3)

TrickyTree83

I love the certainty with which people here say remain would win. There are probably more people who voted remain out of abject unfounded fear who would now vote to leave than leave voters who now want to remain. I'd wager it would be a larger leave majority. The fear has been proven to be utter lies and the guardian needs to perform for it's readership in claiming that the uneducated troglodyte leave vote outside of the refined virtuous city have seen the error of their ways.

always_sunny

ukcarper wrote: »

Not sure it's all 444m

As not all UK citizens want to Brexit.
Right now, in the EU, the EU27 are not looking to break apart.
A year after the UK exiting, there is no one following. That is the reality.

Conrad

Arklight wrote: »

We already were outside it.


We had opted out of ever closer union, out of the Eurozone, and retained sovereignty of our own laws and borders while remaining in the single market and holding a veto.


.

On one hand you imply we were barely in and had full sovereignty, on the other we're so closely enmeshed by '40 yrs of rules and dynamics' that it's an impossible extrication.

michaels

Why the confidence in a remain win - a lot of the 'the end is high' threats have clearly not materialised so those who voted remain out of fear of what the alternative might hold would no longer do so.

On the other hand I suspect some remainers who did not bother to vote last time because they were predicted victory might turn out if there were a rerun whereas it is less clear if the normally ignored lower classes who voted leave to snub the establishment would bother to do so again.

andrewf75

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

I love the certainty with which people here say remain would win. There are probably more people who voted remain out of abject unfounded fear who would now vote to leave than leave voters who now want to remain. I'd wager it would be a larger leave majority. The fear has been proven to be utter lies and the guardian needs to perform for it's readership in claiming that the uneducated troglodyte leave vote outside of the refined virtuous city have seen the error of their ways.

Its backed up by polls and by what people say. Of people I've spoken to I only know leave voters who regret their vote, on radio phone ins I've only ever heard leave voters say they regret their vote, even internet forums, always that way round. I'm honestly struggling to remember encountering a single example of a remain voter saying they would now vote leave.
Another thing is the recent enthusiasm of younger people for politics, which logically would translate into more remain votes.
Also, last time it was well known that leave voters were the more determined to get out and vote. Again that implies that those who didn't were more likely to be potential remain voters

Tromking

Arklight wrote: »

We already were outside it.


We had opted out of ever closer union, out of the Eurozone, and retained sovereignty of our own laws and borders while remaining in the single market and holding a veto.


Then the Leavers decided to trash all this. For what? For nothing it seems.

Not for nothing did the movers and shakers on mainland Europe refer to our so called "opt outs" as part of a 'two speed Europe' rather than us being allowed to permanently cherry pick the bits we like.
There would have been some time in the future a pinch point were our glorious isolation within the EU would have been challenged by the usual suspects. It would've been a bit like Ireland today expecting to be able to set its own corporation tax rate ad infinitum. They play the long game in Brussels don't you know.:)

michaels

posh*spice wrote: »

Apparently as a British citizen i need to be educated on the benefits of the EU.

Well Mr Barnier - you need to be educated on what real and proper democracy looks like - you jester.

What he actually said is that those in charge of the EU (civil servants) would rather see both the UK and the EU suffer financial loss in order to make clear to all that leaving the EU was a bad idea than to reach a mutually beneficial deal.

And you wonder why some are in favour of leaving an organisation where unelected civil servants have set a course towards a United States of Europe' and expect to countries to lead their populations to acceptance of this idea rather than govts reflecting the will of the people as is at least the stated norm of a democracy.

Arklight

andrewf75 wrote: »

That is the saddest thing about it - we already had an amazing deal!

We had the best of all worlds. A unique position that took decades to develop.

Based on an enormous well of residual goodwill, mostly left over from the UK's actions in WW2.


Now finally piddled away by the arrogance of the Brexitwits and their relentless, reasonless, europhobia.

Rusty_Shackleton

Tromking wrote: »

Not for nothing did the movers and shakers on mainland Europe refer to our so called "opt outs" as part of a 'two speed Europe' rather than us being allowed to permanently cherry pick the bits we like.
There would have been some time in the future a pinch point were our glorious isolation within the EU would have been challenged by the usual suspects. It would've been a bit like Ireland today expecting to be able to set its own corporation tax rate ad infinitum. They play the long game in Brussels don't you know.:)

While I doubt Ireland (and others) will be allowed to continue the status quo on corporation tax, in other areas there's a lot of discussion about the EU recognising the need not for a 2-speed, but for countries to be able to opt-in or out to different policy areas in a much looser way. Good read on New Statesman about it:
http://www.newstatesman.com/2017/09/eu-changing-and-uk-attitude-brexit-could-change-too

ukcarper

always_sunny wrote: »

As not all UK citizens want to Brexit.
Right now, in the EU, the EU27 are not looking to break apart.
A year after the UK exiting, there is no one following. That is the reality.

But to say the whole population of EU are happy is not accurate.

Looking at polls overall 62% want their country to stay meaning 38% don't a seizable minority.