ESA Travel Abroad(holiday)

yozy

Teahfc said:

yozy said:

Teahfc said:

Post Brexit Border force are in more contact with HMRC, Ms Patel has got her finger in that pie, days of no passport stamps have gone now. No more appearing and disappearing for all now. 

Source please?

[Link]
Border Force is a strategic partner of HMRC. This agreement sets out the framework within which HMRC and the Home Office work together to ensure Border Force contributes to HMRC objectives, as part of the wider Border Force purpose to secure the UK border.

Hi

How does this, and your other post relate to whether and how the DWP no if a person is abroad or not?

tomtom256

Yozy, it's called data sharing. All government agencies and some private companies data share with the government to detect and prevent fraud.

Charles_Foxtrot

The old link to the Border Force / HMRC agreement doesn’t have anything (directly) to do with the DWP, and the guidance linked to earlier expired years ago. I read the document, it isn’t relevant. The border force was not going to track people coming in and out of the UK, relay that info to the HMRC, who in turn would relay it to the DWP in hopes of finding people on benefits going abroad.

However HMRC work with DWP to detect fraud, and that is relevant as both agencies can share information about bank accounts and finances. I can’t post links here yet but if you google “ hmrc share data with dwp” their “personal information charter” will appear at the top of the list.

In regards to the whole “28 days abroad and do you need to inform” business, the gov.uk website has been updated in the past few months. It is very clear, that at least for PIP, you must declare/inform them if you go abroad for any reason, for any length of time. Again I can’t post links yet here being a new member, but if you google “ pip report change of circumstances” it will take you to the gov.uk pip change of circumstances page. There, it very clearly states: 

Change of circumstances

You must contact the Personal Independence Payment (PIP) enquiry line if:

• your personal details change, for example your name, address or doctor
• the help you need or your condition changes
• your condition has worsened and you’re not expected to live more than 6 months
• you go into hospital or a care home
• you go abroad
• you’re imprisoned or held in detention

You could be taken to court or have to pay a penalty if you give wrong information or do not report a change in your circumstances

poppy12345

Charles_Foxtrot said:

In regards to the whole “28 days abroad and do you need to inform” business, the gov.uk website has been updated in the past few months. It is very clear, that at least for PIP, you must declare/inform them if you go abroad for any reason, for any length of time.

The Gov website hasn't been updated at all as regards to going abroad and claiming benefits. The time allowed has never changed, at least in the time i've been claikming PIP. (2013) For PIP you're allowed up to 13 weeks without medical treatment.

I've been myself for 2 weeks each year and never rang to tell them i'm going. If everyone rang when going on holiday for just a couple of weeks we'd never be able to get through to them at all and waiting times when ringing are bad enough as it is.

Charles_Foxtrot

It certainly has been updated - that page is different than it was months ago. Before the advice was vague in terms of PIP - saying you should call DWP if you’re going to be out of the country more than 28 days. I remember seeing this in November 2020. 

It’s not the time allowed that has changed (28 days). What HAS changed is now that it is explicit that you must notifiy DWP if you go abroad, no matter the time period. 

There was much confusion and lack of clarity about the issue of whether or not to inform the DWP if going away for a period less than 28 days. 

The updates to the gov,uk website make it clear that you must inform DWP (I am only speaking for PIP) if that you go abroad for any reason, for any length of time. 

poppy12345

I disagree, sorry. Clearly stated here on the Gov.uk website that 13 weeks maximum is allowed. https://www.gov.uk/claim-benefits-abroad/disability-benefits Going on holiday is not a change of circumstances.

When i go next time i'll continue to go for 2 weeks and i won't be ringing to tell them because IMO there's nothing to tell them.

Charles_Foxtrot

The key line in that link you posted:
“Tell the office that deals with your benefit that you’ll be away.”

The issue isn’t whether you’re entitled to the benefits whilst you’re away. It’s whether or not you need to inform the DWP that you will be away. You can’t just keep going away and not tell the agency, this is now explicit in multiple portions of gov.uk websites. 

calcotti

Charles_Foxtrot said:

The key line in that link you posted:
“Tell the office that deals with your benefit that you’ll be away.”

The issue isn’t whether you’re entitled to the benefits whilst you’re away. It’s whether or not you need to inform the DWP that you will be away. You can’t just keep going away and not tell the agency, this is now explicit in multiple portions of gov.uk websites. 

The government advice is confusing. I agree it says you should tell them if you go abroad and that statement is unambiguous. However when it says "You could be taken to court or have to pay a penalty if you give wrong information or do not report a change in your circumstances" the fact is that being abroad for a couple of weeks is not a relevant change of circumstances so no penalty could be imposed for not telling them.

Charles_Foxtrot said:

It certainly has been updated - that page is different than it was months ago. Before the advice was vague in terms of PIP - saying you should call DWP if you’re going to be out of the country more than 28 days. I remember seeing this in November 2020. 

Using wayback to look at previous versions of the page I can see no reference to the 28 days - I've looked back to April 2019.

poppy12345

calcotti said:

Charles_Foxtrot said:

The key line in that link you posted:
“Tell the office that deals with your benefit that you’ll be away.”

The issue isn’t whether you’re entitled to the benefits whilst you’re away. It’s whether or not you need to inform the DWP that you will be away. You can’t just keep going away and not tell the agency, this is now explicit in multiple portions of gov.uk websites. 

the fact is that being abroad for a couple of weeks is not a relevant change of circumstances so no penalty could be imposed for not telling them.

Thanks, my point exactly. Which is why i don't tell them. Lets be honest, it would be ridiculous if people rang everytime they went abroad for just a couple of weeks.

Charles_Foxtrot

My only point is that it used to more confusing - the “advice” implied that you only needed to inform DWP if you were out of the country more than 28 days. I remember this clearly last year because I was researching this on the gov.uk pages about PIP before I went abroad. Also the PIP handbook (dated 2018) said that you only needed to inform if you were going abroad more than 28 days. But that’s out of date,,,

But now, the language has changed, and it is very clear that you must inform if you are going abroad, for any length of time, for any reason. It’s right on the website in clear terms.

Poppy, totally agree it would be ridiculous for people to call every time they went abroad, but a lot of things are ridiculous when you look at all of the minute details and clauses when it comes to claiming these benefits! You can say the same thing about “if your condition changes”. What does that mean exactly? A change in diagnoses? The fact you can now wash yourself 4 days out of the week instead of 3? 

Again, the key wording is: 

Change of circumstances

You must contact the Personal Independence Payment (PIP) enquiry line if:

• your personal details change, for example your name, address or doctor
• the help you need or your condition changes
• your condition has worsened and you’re not expected to live more than 6 months
• you go into hospital or a care home
• you go abroad
• you’re imprisoned or held in detention

That, to me, is very clear. It says with no ambiguity that if you must contact pip if you go abroad. That is a relevant change of circumstances, no matter the reason you are going abroad. If I had to guess, it would be relevant to the DWP if you’re going abroad and for what reasons, and if what you were doing abroad conflicted with the reasons you’re on PIP in the first place. For example, if you are claiming mobility assistance and it says you need special/extra assistance in travelling to unfamiliar places, yet you go abroad on a solo backpacking trip?

I would rather play it safe and follow what the government pages say what to do. The reason people don’t want to (and I complete understand this) don’t want to inform DWP of going abroad is risking a trigger of a benefits review.