ESA Travel Abroad(holiday)

epitome

TELLIT01 wrote: »

The link earlier in the thread leads to the gov.uk site which states this:-
Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)

You can get ESA for up to 4 weeks if you go abroad. Talk to your local Jobcentre Plus before you go.

I would note that it does not say .. "You must tell the jobcentreplus before you go" like you will find in the highway code, anything without a must is advisory.

I don't know the specific law that says it, but it is in DWP guidance. "The secretary of state does not require that notification shall be given". I imagine it has always been the case, and the government, on the website is being a bit loose in their advice.

epitome

chris2017 wrote: »

I am in a similar situation except I did inform the DWP of being out of the country for 25 days and they have suspended my ESA (Contributions Based) claim from the date I am out of the country and are saying I have to confirm to them when I get back and the decision maker will decide if I can be paid. They also want me to fill out a holiday form that still has not arrived. I am in the assessment phase waiting for my work capability assessment so I thought telling the DWP would at least stop any appointment being made. I live alone so wont know if an appointment is sent while away. Is there anything I can do to get my ESA(CB) back in payment while away. I have made a mandatory request against the decision but that takes longer than I am away.

You can make an official complaint and insist on a written response, if you want to.

Whoever suspended your claim has not followed the correct procedure. If you tell them your intention is to be out for less than 28 days no suspension should be put on, and the only thing they should do is put an exception into MSRS if you are currently waiting for a WCA. They should obviously also put a note on your file to say that you have told them you are leaving on xx/xx for what country and intend to be out for 28 days or less, they would normally ask you what your return date will be.

The only time a suspension should be put on, is if you tell them you are intending to be outside for more than 28 days.... They should then ask what your day of departure is, and then count 28 days from the day after departure.... and then suspend your claim form the 29th day after departure... so that you continue to be paid for the 28 days.

bspm

TELLIT01 wrote: »

For 'will not' read 'should not'. A friend of mine phoned ESA simply to request a Permitted Work form because he was thinking about doing some work. Next payment never arrived so he called. He was told that payment was suspended because of Permitted Work and wouldn't be reinstated until the form was returned. When he explained that he was simply considering PW the suspension was lifted and payment released.
The moral of the story is that not all staff at DWP know the rules properly, or apply them properly.

As a former trainer of DWP call handlers I know for certain that not all staff interpret the rules properly, the sheer amount of guideline changes does not help either. A week away from work would be met with over 100 emails on changes that had happened that week alone. I always started at the most recent emails because they would more than likely have amended the previous emails on the same subject, you could not make it up.

I think the best piece of advice to anyone contacting the DWP who does not get the answer they believe they should get is to call back again and speak to another call handler, eventually someone will get it right! (You would hope/think)

TELLIT01

bspm wrote: »

As a former trainer of DWP call handlers I know for certain that not all staff interpret the rules properly, the sheer amount of guideline changes does not help either. A week away from work would be met with over 100 emails on changes that had happened that week alone. I always started at the most recent emails because they would more than likely have amended the previous emails on the same subject, you could not make it up.

I think the best piece of advice to anyone contacting the DWP who does not get the answer they believe they should get is to call back again and speak to another call handler, eventually someone will get it right! (You would hope/think)

Sadly, true on all counts. The only caveat I would have is that not getting the answer a person wants is different to not getting the answer they should get.

chris2017

Today in the post arrived a BF5 form "claiming while you are abroad", DWP seem to think I moving, or living abroad when I told them I was going on holiday abroad for 25 days. They are asking about medical treatment, about "leaving Great Britain", the so called holiday form seems to be me as if the DWP thinks I was never coming back !. I will try ringing again to see if this is the right form.

TELLIT01

When you call, emphasise that you are simply going on holiday for less than 28 days. You are not going abroad to live or to receive medical treatment. bspm's post #14 seems to fit the bill perfectly with what you are experiencing.

epitome

Chris, First of all you should read this post, to protect yourself
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/72965251#Comment_72965251


You do not need to fill in that form, if, when you call you speak to someone who knows what they are doing, they will lift the suspension and tell you to ignore the form. They should also send an error to the person who suspended your claim and sent you the form.

I suspect, however, you will get someone who will not have the confidence to do the above, and will tell you to return the form and leave your claim suspended. You should not accept this. You should have already taken their name and office location, so now you ask to speak to a manager.

Unfortunately the manager also will not have a clue. It is up to you how to handle this but this is what I would do...

Say to the manager:
"I understand that if it is my intention to leave the UK,... I will depart on xx/xx/17 and return on xx/xx/17 this is no more than 28 days outside the UK, .... that my ESA should remain in payment. There is no requirement for my claim to be suspended, There is no requirement for me to fill in a form. " Ask the manager if they agree with you....

If they do not agree with you, ask for their name and office location. Ask them to look in the DWP guidance (to look and read it while they have you on the phone) on "ESA claimants temporarily absent/short absence from the UK".
Ask them to read to you the section that supports their position, i.e. for a short absence of intended less than 28 days where it says a claim should be suspended, and a form must be completed. They will be unable to do this because it does not exist.

If they still do not agree to lift the suspension....... Ask them to take a formal complaint over the phone (as they are required to do if you ask for it). Your complaint is that your claim has been wrongly suspended and you have been wrongly told that you must complete and return a form before that suspension will be lifted. Further to that. You have asked manager..xxxxxxxx to read to you the DWP guidance that supports this position and they have been unable to do so. And they have refused to lift the suspension, which is putting you in financial difficulty.
Tell them as part of your complaint that you wish to have a telephone response from the Complaints Resolution Team within 4 working days, and in any event even after you get the telephone response that you also insist on a written response.

I don't have access to the DWP guidance on hand at this moment so I cannot quote it to you. I can remember that it does state under the section for "Short Absence" words to the effect of (from memory) "This is not required because the Secretary of State makes no requirement for notification of short absence" Where I believe the context is about a form, i.e. that a form is not required... If they read the section in full they should find the instruction of what to do if the claimant declares their intention to leave UK for more than 28 days... and there it says that the claim should be suspended from the 29th day. Which, obviously, contradicts what they have done in your case.

I also will be away for a while, so I will not be coming back to this thread any time soon.

Unfortunately re bspm post #14, with waiting times of up to and over 1 hour, phoning and phoning again and again until you get someone who knows what they are doing is not feasible.

bspm

epitome wrote: »

Chris, First of all you should read this post, to protect yourself
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/72965251#Comment_72965251


You do not need to fill in that form, if, when you call you speak to someone who knows what they are doing, they will lift the suspension and tell you to ignore the form. They should also send an error to the person who suspended your claim and sent you the form.

I suspect, however, you will get someone who will not have the confidence to do the above, and will tell you to return the form and leave your claim suspended. You should not accept this. You should have already taken their name and office location, so now you ask to speak to a manager.

Unfortunately the manager also will not have a clue. It is up to you how to handle this but this is what I would do...

Say to the manager:
"I understand that if it is my intention to leave the UK,... I will depart on xx/xx/17 and return on xx/xx/17 this is no more than 28 days outside the UK, .... that my ESA should remain in payment. There is no requirement for my claim to be suspended, There is no requirement for me to fill in a form. " Ask the manager if they agree with you....

If they do not agree with you, ask for their name and office location. Ask them to look in the DWP guidance (to look and read it while they have you on the phone) on "ESA claimants temporarily absent/short absence from the UK".
Ask them to read to you the section that supports their position, i.e. for a short absence of intended less than 28 days where it says a claim should be suspended, and a form must be completed. They will be unable to do this because it does not exist.

If they still do not agree to lift the suspension....... Ask them to take a formal complaint over the phone (as they are required to do if you ask for it). Your complaint is that your claim has been wrongly suspended and you have been wrongly told that you must complete and return a form before that suspension will be lifted. Further to that. You have asked manager..xxxxxxxx to read to you the DWP guidance that supports this position and they have been unable to do so. And they have refused to lift the suspension, which is putting you in financial difficulty.
Tell them as part of your complaint that you wish to have a telephone response from the Complaints Resolution Team within 4 working days, and in any event even after you get the telephone response that you also insist on a written response.

I don't have access to the DWP guidance on hand at this moment so I cannot quote it to you. I can remember that it does state under the section for "Short Absence" words to the effect of (from memory) "This is not required because the Secretary of State makes no requirement for notification of short absence" Where I believe the context is about a form, i.e. that a form is not required... If they read the section in full they should find the instruction of what to do if the claimant declares their intention to leave UK for more than 28 days... and there it says that the claim should be suspended from the 29th day. Which, obviously, contradicts what they have done in your case.

I also will be away for a while, so I will not be coming back to this thread any time soon.

Unfortunately re bspm post #14, with waiting times of up to and over 1 hour, phoning and phoning again and again until you get someone who knows what they are doing is not feasible.

When I called yesterday I waited no more than two minutes (after the recorded instructions) for the call to be answered.

I actually think asking the call handler to read and 'quote' the non existent paragraph then asking for an EO (Manager) to also find the legislation, then asking for the Complaints Resolution Team to contact you will actually take a hell of a lot longer than making a couple of phone calls to eventually speak to someone who knows what they are doing.

Just as an aside, maybe the OP did not make him/herself clear in the first phone call. You seem to make things more complicated than they need to be.

anarchyannie

One thing I have found out is that you can ring the DWP 100 times and you get 100 different stories.
Because hubby is due reassessment he asked if they can make a note that we will be on holidays abroad in August. Whoever he talked to then told him he needs to ring back a couple of days before we leave. Fair enough. I could understand this.
A couple of weeks later because the DWP messed up something else he had to ring again. It turned out the DWP was once again cross-wired and he should ignore the letter he received.
Then hubby got asked if he needs help with something else. And he says, regarding the holidays. We are away abroad for 3 weeks visiting my mother. If he can make a note.
Hubby then got told he has to fill in a form. And he was told he was only allowed to leave for 3 weeks. Even so, the DWP states 4 weeks. Hubby, never once had to fill in a form when we went on holidays. The chap at the job center told us it wasn't a problem as long as it's not more than 4 weeks.
So today came the form. Guess what it's the BF5 form and I can't find one single mention regarding holidays. It's for people moving abroad for treatment or other reasons.
If an engineer was so clueless at work he/she got sacked a long time ago.
Anyway, we're off to the job center tomorrow and get this sorted out.
PS: If you try and find anything regarding this BF5 form on the DWP website you're out of luck. There is nothing.

neontetra_2

I am so glad that people who need esa can afford holidays, i work 12 hour shifts and can't afford a holiday.