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Land Registry questions

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  • 963147
    963147 Posts: 5 Forumite
    First Post
    963147 said:
    963147 said:
    Morning. Currently in the process of remortgaging which is involving a change of lender. For context - when we first purchased the property me and my partner set up a deed of trust due to differing contributions to the deposit. I've received this from the lender's solicitor regarding the restriction 

    "We note that there is currently a restriction secured at Entry B:4 which relates to a Deed of Trust made between yourself and <partner> and a copy of this is also attached above.

    Upon reviewing the RX1 form which was used to register this restriction, we note that this was registered as a standard Form M restriction - this means that this will negatively impact <new lender's> ability to overreach it in the event that they were to seek possession of the property under their power of sale due to any defaults in mortgage payments. This is not acceptable for us to proceed as this would be onerous to their security.

    In order for us to move forward, we would require this restriction to be amended from the Form M at present to a standard Form B. We are unable to make this amendment ourselves due to this service being outside of the service level agreement which we have with <new lender>
    You will, therefore, need to look at instructing your own solicitors to arrange the above and confirm for us once this has been finalised"

    Not particularly sure what this all means with regards Form M, Form B. Can someone help?  
    If this change were to be made does it need to be done via a solicitor or can it be done ourselves directly with land registry?

    Thanks
    Form B and Form M are different types of restriction. So form as in their format (wording) 
    I don’t think it can be a form M though as that relates to a shared ownership lease and not a Deed of Trust as suggested. I’d suggest clarifying matters 
    You can apply to cancel (form RX3) or withdrawal (form RX4) depending on what type of restriction it is. And form RX1 can be used to apply for a new restriction if required. 
    Our Practice Guide 24 explains more re Private Trusts and whilst you don’t have to use a solicitor it might be prudent to get some legal advice both re the trust, it’s protection on the register and your new mortgage 


    Thanks for the response. We're looking into potentially removing the restriction ourselves. I believe it'll be an RX4 form as me and my partner are the beneficiaries of the restriction. I note the form states about giving a reason for removing the restriction and providing evidence that it is no longer required. What evidence is normally required? In this case the restriction is just around a deed of trust dictating how sales proceeds would be split, so would simple confirmation from both parties the agreement is no longer needed be sufficient?  What's the usual timeframe for removal once the RX4 is submitted (assuming all info present and correct!)
    Ok but you haven’t clarified which restriction it is. If it is a form B then you’ll need to cancel it - see PG 24 section 6.2 which explains how you can use form RX3 and a ST5 with the latter being the ‘confirmation’ you refer to 

    Wait times are long so you’d be looking at around a 3 month wait. So once applied for you should submit a separate request to expedite to reduce the wait time to a couple of weeks 


    I did query with the solicitor who originally wrote up the deed of trust and registered the restriction, but disappointingly they aren't responding to our query. I've had a look myself and the wording does appear to Form M, as the lenders solicitors flagged. Would this change what we need to do?
  • Land_Registry
    Land_Registry Posts: 6,143 Organisation Representative
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    963147 said:
    963147 said:
    963147 said:
    Morning. Currently in the process of remortgaging which is involving a change of lender. For context - when we first purchased the property me and my partner set up a deed of trust due to differing contributions to the deposit. I've received this from the lender's solicitor regarding the restriction 

    "We note that there is currently a restriction secured at Entry B:4 which relates to a Deed of Trust made between yourself and <partner> and a copy of this is also attached above.

    Upon reviewing the RX1 form which was used to register this restriction, we note that this was registered as a standard Form M restriction - this means that this will negatively impact <new lender's> ability to overreach it in the event that they were to seek possession of the property under their power of sale due to any defaults in mortgage payments. This is not acceptable for us to proceed as this would be onerous to their security.

    In order for us to move forward, we would require this restriction to be amended from the Form M at present to a standard Form B. We are unable to make this amendment ourselves due to this service being outside of the service level agreement which we have with <new lender>
    You will, therefore, need to look at instructing your own solicitors to arrange the above and confirm for us once this has been finalised"

    Not particularly sure what this all means with regards Form M, Form B. Can someone help?  
    If this change were to be made does it need to be done via a solicitor or can it be done ourselves directly with land registry?

    Thanks
    Form B and Form M are different types of restriction. So form as in their format (wording) 
    I don’t think it can be a form M though as that relates to a shared ownership lease and not a Deed of Trust as suggested. I’d suggest clarifying matters 
    You can apply to cancel (form RX3) or withdrawal (form RX4) depending on what type of restriction it is. And form RX1 can be used to apply for a new restriction if required. 
    Our Practice Guide 24 explains more re Private Trusts and whilst you don’t have to use a solicitor it might be prudent to get some legal advice both re the trust, it’s protection on the register and your new mortgage 


    Thanks for the response. We're looking into potentially removing the restriction ourselves. I believe it'll be an RX4 form as me and my partner are the beneficiaries of the restriction. I note the form states about giving a reason for removing the restriction and providing evidence that it is no longer required. What evidence is normally required? In this case the restriction is just around a deed of trust dictating how sales proceeds would be split, so would simple confirmation from both parties the agreement is no longer needed be sufficient?  What's the usual timeframe for removal once the RX4 is submitted (assuming all info present and correct!)
    Ok but you haven’t clarified which restriction it is. If it is a form B then you’ll need to cancel it - see PG 24 section 6.2 which explains how you can use form RX3 and a ST5 with the latter being the ‘confirmation’ you refer to 

    Wait times are long so you’d be looking at around a 3 month wait. So once applied for you should submit a separate request to expedite to reduce the wait time to a couple of weeks 


    I did query with the solicitor who originally wrote up the deed of trust and registered the restriction, but disappointingly they aren't responding to our query. I've had a look myself and the wording does appear to Form M, as the lenders solicitors flagged. Would this change what we need to do?
    It will but it shouldn’t ‘appear’ to be a form M standard wording - see PG 19 section 7.3 for the actual wording 
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/notices-restrictions-and-the-protection-of-third-party-interests-in-the-register/practice-guide-19-notices-restrictions-and-the-protection-of-third-party-interests-in-the-register#appendix-b-standard-form-restrictions
    Or share the title number and I’ll confirm 
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • 963147
    963147 Posts: 5 Forumite
    First Post
    963147 said:
    963147 said:
    963147 said:
    Morning. Currently in the process of remortgaging which is involving a change of lender. For context - when we first purchased the property me and my partner set up a deed of trust due to differing contributions to the deposit. I've received this from the lender's solicitor regarding the restriction 

    "We note that there is currently a restriction secured at Entry B:4 which relates to a Deed of Trust made between yourself and <partner> and a copy of this is also attached above.

    Upon reviewing the RX1 form which was used to register this restriction, we note that this was registered as a standard Form M restriction - this means that this will negatively impact <new lender's> ability to overreach it in the event that they were to seek possession of the property under their power of sale due to any defaults in mortgage payments. This is not acceptable for us to proceed as this would be onerous to their security.

    In order for us to move forward, we would require this restriction to be amended from the Form M at present to a standard Form B. We are unable to make this amendment ourselves due to this service being outside of the service level agreement which we have with <new lender>
    You will, therefore, need to look at instructing your own solicitors to arrange the above and confirm for us once this has been finalised"

    Not particularly sure what this all means with regards Form M, Form B. Can someone help?  
    If this change were to be made does it need to be done via a solicitor or can it be done ourselves directly with land registry?

    Thanks
    Form B and Form M are different types of restriction. So form as in their format (wording) 
    I don’t think it can be a form M though as that relates to a shared ownership lease and not a Deed of Trust as suggested. I’d suggest clarifying matters 
    You can apply to cancel (form RX3) or withdrawal (form RX4) depending on what type of restriction it is. And form RX1 can be used to apply for a new restriction if required. 
    Our Practice Guide 24 explains more re Private Trusts and whilst you don’t have to use a solicitor it might be prudent to get some legal advice both re the trust, it’s protection on the register and your new mortgage 


    Thanks for the response. We're looking into potentially removing the restriction ourselves. I believe it'll be an RX4 form as me and my partner are the beneficiaries of the restriction. I note the form states about giving a reason for removing the restriction and providing evidence that it is no longer required. What evidence is normally required? In this case the restriction is just around a deed of trust dictating how sales proceeds would be split, so would simple confirmation from both parties the agreement is no longer needed be sufficient?  What's the usual timeframe for removal once the RX4 is submitted (assuming all info present and correct!)
    Ok but you haven’t clarified which restriction it is. If it is a form B then you’ll need to cancel it - see PG 24 section 6.2 which explains how you can use form RX3 and a ST5 with the latter being the ‘confirmation’ you refer to 

    Wait times are long so you’d be looking at around a 3 month wait. So once applied for you should submit a separate request to expedite to reduce the wait time to a couple of weeks 


    I did query with the solicitor who originally wrote up the deed of trust and registered the restriction, but disappointingly they aren't responding to our query. I've had a look myself and the wording does appear to Form M, as the lenders solicitors flagged. Would this change what we need to do?
    It will but it shouldn’t ‘appear’ to be a form M standard wording - see PG 19 section 7.3 for the actual wording 

    Or share the title number and I’ll confirm 
    Thanks, I'll DM the title number. 
  • mikedoh
    mikedoh Posts: 10 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture First Post Combo Breaker
    Hi, 

    Hope you can help. We are looking into buying a house, it has a strip of land that the current owners and next door neighbor pay every year to rent and has a fence in the middle to separate the properties. It was supposedly going to be used as an access road incase development happened on the fields behind the house. There is a caution on the land from the electricity company as the cables do go underneath it form a nearby substation. ( i think although not sure)

    We are quite keen at looking into purchasing the land so no access road could ever be built but we aren't sure who to contact. the land title is MAN378176

    Thanks for all your advice (if there is any)
  • Slithery
    Slithery Posts: 6,046 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 11 January 2022 at 1:30AM
    mikedoh said:
    We are quite keen at looking into purchasing the land so no access road could ever be built but we aren't sure who to contact. the land title is MAN378176
    You ask whoever the owner is, which you can find out by entering the title number into the LR website and downloading the title for £3.
    Although if there is still the possibility of the site being developed in the future then the answer will probably either be 'no' or asking for an obscene amount of money.

  • Land_Registry
    Land_Registry Posts: 6,143 Organisation Representative
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    mikedoh said:
    Hi, 

    Hope you can help. We are looking into buying a house, it has a strip of land that the current owners and next door neighbor pay every year to rent and has a fence in the middle to separate the properties. It was supposedly going to be used as an access road incase development happened on the fields behind the house. There is a caution on the land from the electricity company as the cables do go underneath it form a nearby substation. ( i think although not sure)

    We are quite keen at looking into purchasing the land so no access road could ever be built but we aren't sure who to contact. the land title is MAN378176

    Thanks for all your advice (if there is any)
    If you are trying to identify the landowner then start with the caution title register. That refers to a 1966 Conveyance which granted the right of way. To do that they needed to own the land so research them and work from there as probably still in the same family ownership 
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • I’ve posted a new thread but just found this:

    Please can someone help, we are near the end of purchasing a flat, typically the solicitors have been really slow, now our solicitor is saying the the Title Register has a different address on it (old address), however in 2015 it looks like the address and postcode were changed,  no one recognises the old postcode as it looks to be obsolete. The solicitors say the mortgage must match the title register, our mortgage brokers says the whole application will need to be redone and the fixed rate we were on has moved up 0.5%, it was a real struggle to get a mortgage and we can't risk trying to get a new one, plus the broker is saying how can he process a mortgage application on an address that no longer exists. 

    Ideally, we want the sale to proceed and sort out the LR title register later and pay any fees to do it, it's very odd as the title plan shows the new building number and title register shows the old!!

    The solicitors is saying it could take ages to correct and costs will be passed to us, we want to ditch this solicitors and use someone else for further work, can anyone offer help on how we can proceed using our current mortgage offer and just get the sale over line and deal with Land registry later, solicitor saying we can't do that, but not offering any real hlep how to progress.         
  • DrBM
    DrBM Posts: 12 Forumite
    Ninth Anniversary First Post Combo Breaker
    Hello,

    This is a message for Land_Registry, I have put an offer on a house which doesn't have deeds as they have been lost. I have read the available information about having possessory and absolute title and the 12 year waiting period. But is there anywhere that I can read about the personal experiences that people have had. Do people have/anticipate any problems during that 12 year period? The property offered upon requires a lot of work doing to it so I am a little nervous about all of this.

    Any advice/information would be gratefully received as I really like the house.
  • Land_Registry
    Land_Registry Posts: 6,143 Organisation Representative
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    I’ve posted a new thread but just found this:

    Please can someone help, we are near the end of purchasing a flat, typically the solicitors have been really slow, now our solicitor is saying the the Title Register has a different address on it (old address), however in 2015 it looks like the address and postcode were changed,  no one recognises the old postcode as it looks to be obsolete. The solicitors say the mortgage must match the title register, our mortgage brokers says the whole application will need to be redone and the fixed rate we were on has moved up 0.5%, it was a real struggle to get a mortgage and we can't risk trying to get a new one, plus the broker is saying how can he process a mortgage application on an address that no longer exists. 

    Ideally, we want the sale to proceed and sort out the LR title register later and pay any fees to do it, it's very odd as the title plan shows the new building number and title register shows the old!!

    The solicitors is saying it could take ages to correct and costs will be passed to us, we want to ditch this solicitors and use someone else for further work, can anyone offer help on how we can proceed using our current mortgage offer and just get the sale over line and deal with Land registry later, solicitor saying we can't do that, but not offering any real hlep how to progress.         
    Unsure anyone likely to offer wider help on this thread. But has anyone contacted us to get the registered details amended? If they have what’s the title number?
    if they haven’t then suggest they do
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • Land_Registry
    Land_Registry Posts: 6,143 Organisation Representative
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    DrBM said:
    Hello,

    This is a message for Land_Registry, I have put an offer on a house which doesn't have deeds as they have been lost. I have read the available information about having possessory and absolute title and the 12 year waiting period. But is there anywhere that I can read about the personal experiences that people have had. Do people have/anticipate any problems during that 12 year period? The property offered upon requires a lot of work doing to it so I am a little nervous about all of this.

    Any advice/information would be gratefully received as I really like the house.
    I’m unaware of anything but creating your own thread on forums may trigger some comments from those who have been through it. 
    I’d also recommend speaking to your conveyancer as they’ll have experience of such things and have an idea around ‘risks’
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
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