Brexit, The Economy and House Prices (Part 2)

kabayiri

Rusty_Shackleton wrote: »

....
A more sensible approach would be to prevent exploitation of migrant labour through enforcement of current laws, preventing businesses going abroad to advertise for labour they could source here (even if that means paying more money) etc.
....

Successive governments for the last couple of decades have had ample opportunity to implement better policy to further local training, and blatant exploitation of EU labour. Even the 3 month work rule for EU nationals could have been implemented.

They didn't do anything constructive; and I reckon they lost the trust of a large section of the public.

Give that same public a chance to poke the government with a big stick, and what do you expect?

Rinoa

Arklight wrote: »

I think people that tend to believe these figures are either wealthy and are just oblivious to real life for many, or don't know any young people.

It's fine sitting in a paid off house in the home counties drawing a nice pension and reading some bollards about how well off everyone is, but this really isn't the experience of many working people in the UK.

Housing is bitterly unaffordable, and trying to find an actual permanent job which pays enough not to need to claim working poverty benefits at the same time is a pipe dream.


For many people the only way they actually can claim enough benefits to live on is if they are in some part time poverty wages job, because the Social now makes it so hard to claim if you are genuinely unemployed.


It's virtual slave labour for employers, with wages topped up by the taxpayer and billions of pounds given to private landlords in housing benefit.

The number of EU nationals working in the UK hit a record high this month. Any idea why they keep coming if things are so bad?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-latest-eu-citizens-living-uk-record-high-applicants-european-union-a7896151.html

.

always_sunny

Rusty_Shackleton wrote: »

If we were to go an extreme route and deport EU nationals when we leave, you would cause a massive shortage of labour in a very short period of time.

If the UK was to go extreme and deport EU nationals, the UK can simply kiss good bye to any remote chance to ever get any possible deal from the EU.

The boycott towards British goods and people would get really extreme.

kabayiri

gfplux wrote: »

...
I now realise that the the present Government are playing the exit game so they can blame the obvious (to me) economic and political difficulty Britain will suffer for the next decade on "the revenge of the EU"

Of course they will blame the EU.

These are politicians we are talking about. Deflection, or even better, the creation of a common greater enemy, is a political tool.

Maybe Davis will now go on the front foot, and overload the EU with proposals which all sound well meaning, but try and chip away at the cohesiveness of the core principles.

Any negative response from the EU will be painted up as demonstrative of a hostile organisation by our tabloid press.

gfplux

Here is the position paper on Northern Ireland and Ireland.
30 pages.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/638135/6.3703_DEXEU_Northern_Ireland_and_Ireland_INTERACTIVE.pdf

Arklight

Meanwhile to cement my reputation as a Britain hating communist EU loving Remoaner, I am going to pour scorn on this colossal multibillion pound white whale of anachronistic Little Englander jingoism, sailing into Portsmouth:


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4794340/HMS-Queen-Elizabeth-reach-Portsmouth-morning.html#comments


This "carrier" appears to be carrying one helicopter and a couple of hundred sailors, sparsely spread around the perimeter of the deck, because it doesn't have any planes.


Were it to have any planes it would take the entire Royal Navy to make a battle group just about big enough to stop Russia or the Chinese turning it into a sea bed ornament in 60 seconds.


Woefully, there is another one of these things on the way.


I suggest Leavers take a look at this nonsense and reflect on what kind of lunacy leads a medium sized, rather broke country to these ends.

GreatApe

Arklight wrote: »

I think people that tend to believe these figures are either wealthy and are just oblivious to real life for many, or don't know any young people.

It's fine sitting in a paid off house in the home counties drawing a nice pension and reading some bollards about how well off everyone is, but this really isn't the experience of many working people in the UK.

Housing is bitterly unaffordable, and trying to find an actual permanent job which pays enough not to need to claim working poverty benefits at the same time is a pipe dream.


For many people the only way they actually can claim enough benefits to live on is if they are in some part time poverty wages job, because the Social now makes it so hard to claim if you are genuinely unemployed.


It's virtual slave labour for employers, with wages topped up by the taxpayer and billions of pounds given to private landlords in housing benefit.

Most HB goes to social landlords

Private landlords pay a huge amount of tax often almost a straight 40-45% of their rental income soon to be more than that due to S24 and on top of that private landlords pay CGT and Stamp duty. Social landlords pay none of that

Anyway, The picture in the UK is good. The problem is that people often are only friends with people in similar situations and they project that out as the norm which it of course isnt. Wages and opportunity in the uk are high. That does not mean that everyone can have a fantastic life it means it isnt the fault of the uk economy if they dont. Unlike say in Congo where you could be super smart and super hard working and yet you are still fooked.

Tromking

Arklight wrote: »

Meanwhile to cement my reputation as a Britain hating communist EU loving Remoaner, I am going to pour scorn on this colossal multibillion pound white whale of anachronistic Little Englander jingoism, sailing into Portsmouth:


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4794340/HMS-Queen-Elizabeth-reach-Portsmouth-morning.html#comments


This "carrier" appears to be carrying one helicopter and a couple of hundred sailors, sparsely spread around the perimeter of the deck, because it doesn't have any planes.


Were it to have any planes it would take the entire Royal Navy to make a battle group just about big enough to stop Russia or the Chinese turning it into a sea bed ornament in 60 seconds.


Woefully, there is another one of these things on the way.


I suggest Leavers take a look at this nonsense and reflect on what kind of lunacy leads a medium sized, rather broke country to these ends.

If only Merkel would've thrown Cameron a kipper 18 months ago. 'Big Lizzie' would have helped 'project' the EU's foreign policy agenda quite nicely. Hey-ho.

Arklight

GreatApe wrote: »

Most HB goes to social landlords

Private landlords pay a huge amount of tax often almost a straight 40-45% of their rental income soon to be more than that due to S24 and on top of that private landlords pay CGT and Stamp duty. Social landlords pay none of that

Anyway, The picture in the UK is good. The problem is that people often are only friends with people in similar situations and they project that out as the norm which it of course isnt. Wages and opportunity in the uk are high. That does not mean that everyone can have a fantastic life it means it isnt the fault of the uk economy if they dont. Unlike say in Congo where you could be super smart and super hard working and yet you are still fooked.

Yeah, sure they do.

Thousands of landlords in just one London borough are believed to have avoided paying millions of pounds in tax, prompting suggestions that there could be up to £200m in unpaid levies across the capital.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/london-landlords-avoid-tax-not-declare-income-200-million-newham-rents-property-a7893111.html


I'm sure all the nurses forced into using food banks will be delighted to learn that it is their own fault for not being super hard working.

Maybe they can take their skills to the Congo.

Rusty_Shackleton

kabayiri wrote: »

Successive governments for the last couple of decades have had ample opportunity to implement better policy to further local training, and blatant exploitation of EU labour. Even the 3 month work rule for EU nationals could have been implemented.

They didn't do anything constructive; and I reckon they lost the trust of a large section of the public.

Give that same public a chance to poke the government with a big stick, and what do you expect?

I know I shouldn't be, but yes, I am surprised. I'm surprised people in this country are stupid enough to vote for something that will do a lot of harm, on promises made by the likes of Gove and Johnson. But then again, people for a long time have paid attention to Farage, a bloody banker of all people, pretending to care about the people of this country.

Worse, while it certainly ended the career trajectory of Cameron, are people honestly naive enough to not realise this country's elite will thrive whatever the outcome of the referendum? We are not all in this together, never have been never will. The public would do well to just do the opposite of whatever the sun and daily mail say is right/good idea, that would achieve some positive results across the board.

always_sunny wrote: »

If the UK was to go extreme and deport EU nationals, the UK can simply kiss good bye to any remote chance to ever get any possible deal from the EU.

The boycott towards British goods and people would get really extreme.

I was just using it as an example, speculating on finer points makes it harder to illustrate the outcome At any rate, we'll just start importing non-EU nationals wholesale - personally I look forward to it driving the bigots insane, it's just tragic that the bigots will inevitably take the frustration of their own personal life failings out on those poor people we bring in.