Brexit, The Economy and House Prices (Part 2)

always_sunny

kabayiri wrote: »

Only Africa can solve Africa's problems. That's not a pleasing thought to some, but it's reality.

More Africans kill fellow Africans. The reasons will be manifest, some cultural, some born of injustice.

The EU certainly doesn't have the answer, and it's not to be found by importing 100 million Africans in a flawed hope of cultural enlightenment.

The same can be said for many issues including domestic ones, those with short end of the stick, stuff it.
i.e. Take poverty in the UK, they could get out of it by improving their skills and moving to a higher salary jobs. "That's not a pleasing thought to some, but it's reality."

I don't believe in a utopian world of let's them all come here, but reality is, folks with a less desirable life will always try to improve it, whether it's Africans crossing the Med is search for better life, or poorer folks within a country trying to become more affluent.

Until there's an incentive for those people to stay put, they will always try. The fact that there is a 'border' is irrelevant and telling then 'go-away' doesn't work anymore. To quote you again, "That's not a pleasing thought to some, but it's reality."

The UK has been doing the same exercise for decades now, are you suggesting that multicultural life in the UK is a failure?

Herzlos

Malthusian wrote: »

When did we last bomb an African country's infrastructure? Sierra Leone?

Libya? I'm pretty sure we dropped a few bombs there, or at least otherwise aided the coup.

cogito

kabayiri wrote: »

The real issue is that the EU don't want to spook the German electorate with pesky issues about jobs and EU stability. They have enough to worry about with the struggle to cope with hundreds of thousands of migrant refugees.

Correction. Hundreds of thousands of migrants and a few refugees.

Herzlos

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

You're blustering again.
The original point is about divisions within the EU as opposed to divisions within the UK, try though you may to detract and make some supposed pro-EU point which in reality does not exist.

No. My point was that a collapse of the UK is more likely than a collapse of the EU. We're not far at all from the UK splitting, especially if Brexit goes badly for us. We're still some way from the EU splitting even if Brexit goes badly for them.

I never claimed the EU was a united utopia, there are a few minority groups that are anti-EU or separatist, but none as mainstream or with the majority of the SNP in the UK. None of them (that I'm aware of) have something as big as Brexit splitting them further apart.

Maybe Bavaria will split from Germany, or Catalonia will split from Spain, but will that cause the EU to fall apart?


Will the EU falling apart help us in some way? Or is it just some post-vote justification on why we should be leaving? If the EU economy goes down the pan we're totally stuffed whether we're in or not.

Herzlos

cogito wrote: »

Correction. Hundreds of thousands of migrants and a few refugees.

Are you sure? I was under the impression the vast majority were refugees. Or do they become migrants once the hit the first safe point and are moved on?

kabayiri

cogito wrote: »

Correction. Hundreds of thousands of migrants and a few refugees.

I've long since given up on the distinction.

Many of these mass migrants will end up in the same holding centres; the same accommodation blocks; the same dead end zones that pretty much every country in the world has, in some form or other.

Some will make it out. Many will fall into a life of despondency, despair, and resentment. They end up hating their hosts. Religious or political extreme ideology will only fan the flames.

Somebody, somewhere, sold them an ideal that things would be so much better. Snake oil salesmen probably.

kabayiri

Herzlos wrote: »

Are you sure? I was under the impression the vast majority were refugees. Or do they become migrants once the hit the first safe point and are moved on?

If you have just a hundred, you can work out what/who they are.

If you have a hundred thousand, crossing Europe in whatever transport they can get, you have no real chance of vetting properly.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Herzlos wrote: »

No. My point was that a collapse of the UK is more likely than a collapse of the EU. We're not far at all from the UK splitting, especially if Brexit goes badly for us. We're still some way from the EU splitting even if Brexit goes badly for them.

Is the UK leaving the EU not a split of the EU then?
That is already happening.
"Splitting" of the UK is not.

Herzlos wrote: »

Are you sure? I was under the impression the vast majority were refugees. Or do they become migrants once the hit the first safe point and are moved on?

You really are in denial, aren't you?
Next time you look at photographs of your so-called "refugees" in the Med, look at what by far the majority are; they are young and they are male. Economic migrants, not refugees - though there may indeed be an odd refugee or two amongst them if we could but search hard enough for them.
In fact the UN itself says 7 out of 10 are migrants with the remainder being either refugees or asylum seekers.
Even of those around Turkey claiming to be refugees, many were found to be Bangladeshi, Afghan, Pakistani etc. etc. etc.

There is clearly a distinction between migrant, refugee and asylum seeker and equally clearly even the UN accept that by far the majority are migrants.

kabayiri

always_sunny wrote: »

...
The UK has been doing the same exercise for decades now, are you suggesting that multicultural life in the UK is a failure?

I grew up near Rochdale mate. I know it failed there. It's not like Camden market you know.

In fact, I knew well one of the places which was implicated in the child grooming scandal. It's not actually in Rochdale.

In the past, you generally kept yourself to yourself. Anybody who got a decent job either moved out or to the nice bits like Bamford.

Herzlos

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Is the UK leaving the EU not a split of the EU then?
That is already happening.
"Splitting" of the UK is not.

That's a reluctant member leaving, I've already covered that.
The UK leaving won't cause the EU to fall apart, we've been holding back their integration for decades.

You really are in denial, aren't you?

About migrants? Not at all. I just don't by the scaremongering.
Who in their right mind is going to walk across Europe and live in a detention centre for years just to get a better job? Only people with no option.

Next time you look at photographs of your so-called "refugees" in the Med, look at what by far the majority are; they are young and they are male. Economic migrants, not refugees

That's been debunked a lot of times. Young men are just as entitled to seek refuge as anyone else, whilst being more likely to actually get out and survive the trip.

In fact the UN itself says 7 out of 10 are migrants with the remainder being either refugees or asylum seekers.

Have you got a reference to that? It's not that I don't believe you, I'm just curious as to the context and how they determine it.

There is clearly a distinction between migrant, refugee and asylum seeker and equally clearly even the UN accept that by far the majority are migrants.

And we should be making a better effort to establish what's going on, process the people in as short a time as possible in as humane way as possible, and then either integrate them or send them home.