Where do I stand if we seperate, not married but have children together

Sambella

The people on this forum do indeed have sympathies for people but they are also realists.

Where I work, lots of women there are retiring or taking early retirement. These women have worked 30+ years. They all took maternity leave years ago when maternity leave then was only 6 weeks :eek:

Their husbands didn't earn £65k so they went out to work to improve the family finances as tax credits weren't around then.

Children aren't always a bar to working.

You were able to stay at home because your partner earned what he did. You therefore had full advantage of his income. His finances must have taken a hit when you gave up work and he became solely responsible for all the bills and more.

If your partner earned £30k instead of £65k what would you have done? At that level of income you would have got child tax credits. Tax credits weren't around for women way back then.

Times have moved on. If you left your partner tomorrow the state would support you and you'd have child Maintenance as well. All you need to do is work a certain number of hours and you'd get tax credits, child tax credits , maintenance from him , 70 percent of your childcare costs met. This adds up to many thousands. As an example a woman earning up to £30k would still get some child tax credits if she had two kids. Add £1000 a month maintenance to that that would take you close to £42k a year. (Not counting the childcare costs the govt pays)



https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/tax-credits-entitlement-table-working-at-least-16-hours-and-no-childcare/tax-credits-entitlement-table-working-at-least-16-hours-and-no-childcare

Take £12k (£100 a month) maintenance off £65k and you get £43k plus bear in mind he would pay more tax than you so you may actually end up with a little more than him. (Not counting his bonus) and also not counting your child benefit)

Looking it this way if you bacame self employed earning £30k with tax payers help you could actually have a very similar income to his.

So the society you are bitter about actually helps you a lot.

Bitterness isn't good for you.

globetraveller

You are really hitting out but perhaps it is fear of having to go out to earn? You maybe just don't have the confidence? Also it did sound like the situation with your OH has been longerm but in one post you said " in
the last couple of weeks." Do you think you may be depressed? It could be that your OH is also depressed.
Could that be the case?

FBaby

Bitterness is anger, and anger can be good because it gives you the energy to do something about changing the situation that makes you happy. At the moment, you are directing your anger at him, but one day, you'll realise that he too experienced stress and frustrations, just in a different one. Just like maybe one day you might regret that you didn't get the chance to progress in your career as you could have if you hadn't had 4 children, one day he will likely look back and think that maybe if he hadn't been so dedicated to his career, he would have enjoyed his children more. He too could then blame you and believe that if you'd work and brought an income, he might have felt less pressured to bring in the money to provide the lifestyle you and the children got accustomed to.

In the end, whatever were your reason to have 4 children, it inevitably had implication in terms of the pressure of bringing him the money to support them and the demand to make sure they got the individual attention they deserve. It's hard work bringing up four children.

Just one bit of advice. You've dedicated your life to your children and that's great. Don't go and ruin it if you decide to separate by continuing to be angry and bitter towards your OH. There is no more damage separate parents can do to mess up their kids then to be stuck in the middle of feuding parents who battle not for the benefit of the children as they convince themselves they are, but because they have never moved away from wanting to hurt the other the way they feel they have been hurt themselves.

So if you do move on, make sure you leave the anger and bitterness with the separation as much as possible and focus on your new life and how you can find contentment in what you will be building for yourself and your kids.

clearingout

Mojisola wrote: »

I can't understand why you've been together for so long and had four children if he's always behaved like this.

If you had walked away after he failed to act like a father after the first child or had got married, your life would be very different.

Equally, he could have taken responsibility, knowing family life wasn't for him. He could have refused to have additional children, ensured he used contraception and found himself some counselling to sort out his poor attitude.

Why must it always be the woman who 'should have' made the changes ?

Mojisola

clearingout wrote: »

Equally, he could have taken responsibility, knowing family life wasn't for him. He could have refused to have additional children, ensured he used contraception and found himself some counselling to sort out his poor attitude.

Why must it always be the woman who 'should have' made the changes ?

It shouldn't always be the woman - it's up to the partner who isn't happy with the other person's behaviour to either accept it, discuss changes or leave.

The OP chose to accept it but is now angry that he didn't change.

He had no need to change.

kelpie35

Have you asked your partner when he comes home from work "how has your day been etc?"

It looks like you are really angry and frustrated.

I am sure your children must be picking up on all the tension in the home. Please think carefully how you manage this as it can cause untold damage to children no matter how old they are.

I think you both need to find a place, away from the children, and have a good talk one to one. You both need to listen to one another and then decide what direction you and your partner need to take.

NannyV

To clear a few things up, I have taken 9 months maternity leave for each child and gone straight back to work so anyone saying I was a sahm because of his earnings is wrong!!!! I could have been, but I choose to work to give my children days out/holidays/new shoes/school activities so that I was contributing. I have done evening babysitting, waitressing, nannying, Childminding and worked in a Nursery once they all started school so they have had me around during the daytimes and I have also managed to work too.



He wasn't 'broody' to have children like me, but he wanted them all the same. However at times his attitude to parenting when he gets in these moods can get me down. It happens maybe every few months for whatever reason, work stress/normal home problems/I don't know but he refuses to talk about the issues and strops around and its something that I question if is normal and ok. I know everyone has the challenge but I wish he would have more patience and enjoy his kids a bit more. He is more of an authorative parent which is fine, but that's all he seems to do and he talks about them in a negative way alot. Which I get because when they are jumping around being noisy etc. It can be hardwork but you also have to pull yourself together and have fun with your kids and talk to them like people and not just order them around. So for those reasons it sometimes makes me mad and causes tension. So I bring it up and say he needs to make an effort to stop snapping at the kids.... And I guess if I do this while he is already a bit fed up, maybe it does make him a bit depressed but its an endless cycle sometimes.

Thank you Sambella for your answers, they help.

At the moment, I'm not sure what the answer is, when he snaps out of his moods and all goes back to being just ok, its easy to just carry on and tell yourself everyone has issues and all parents disagree over things. But when he goes back to being moody and snappy its back to wondering if he actually wants to be part of this family and if it would be better for all of us for us not to be together. I know if we seperated he would bend over backwards to ensure I struggled financially and that he got as much as he can because believe me if you think I come across as bitter then you should hear him! The idea of him just paying higher tax makes him get his pants in a twist so he would begrudge paying me maintanence and would try to make this as low as he possibly could by not declaring pay rises or bonus's etc.

Thank you for some of the comments, alot of the other comments are like water off a ducks back to me.

NannyV

globetraveller wrote: »

You are really hitting out but perhaps it is fear of having to go out to earn? You maybe just don't have the confidence? Also it did sound like the situation with your OH has been longerm but in one post you said " in
the last couple of weeks." Do you think you may be depressed? It could be that your OH is also depressed.
Could that be the case?

Like I said in my above post, I have always worked, I have only ever earnt just above minimum wage but I've done whatever jobs that fit in around me still looking after the kids during the day etc.
I was hitting out yesterday because I felt at breaking point and he wouldn't talk to me, I was angry that he kept stropping out evenings instead of dealing with it, I was scared I would never figure out a way to provide for my kids on my wages or with my job skills, if he did in fact want to not be with us anymore because it felt like he didn't. I needed to figure out a back up plan fast, I came on here to see if anyone could help and within a couple of replies was confronted with 'but why should it be your Oh etc' so it suddenly felt like I was being made out to be a woman not deserving any help and that after all I have done for my OH and family, that in return it counts for nothing and I should feel bad for expecting my OH to do the decent thing, if he could afford too, by signing the mortgage over to me and letting me pay it and manage the house if I could afford too.
Maybe some people were saying it in a way of... But a court may see it this way... You may come across this.... But it certainly didn't come over like that to me.

NannyV

kelpie35 wrote: »

Have you asked your partner when he comes home from work "how has your day been etc?"

It looks like you are really angry and frustrated.

I am sure your children must be picking up on all the tension in the home. Please think carefully how you manage this as it can cause untold damage to children no matter how old they are.

I think you both need to find a place, away from the children, and have a good talk one to one. You both need to listen to one another and then decide what direction you and your partner need to take.

No I don't ask him as Im usually in the middle of dishing his dinner up, sorting out washing, doing kids homework and the kids are so loud we can't hear eachother over the noise. Its a bit dysfunctional, we don't really have a loving relationship now, we do practical things to help eachother I guess more than helping eachother emotionally. I think he actually has some undiagnosed emotional issue tbh, he doesn't hug his kids or show affection, has never kissed them. I'm not a lover of cuddles and kisses in a relationship so I have never pushed it. I do worry the kids don't see us doing it and the effect it might have on them for their future relationships. Luckily I love nothing more than giving my kids big cuddles and kisses and telling them I love them every day so they get it from me loads. He isn't a talker, if people don't have the same opinion as him he finds it really hard to accept. He holds grudges forever and if you cross him once thats it, your done. He can be a difficult man, which in turn can make me bitter as I am a giver and would go without to help a stranger where as he wouldn't. When life is going just how he wants it he is happy and is fine, but once he gets a grudge or in a mood he can be a difficult man to live with and then yes I get bitter.

Sambella

Life as a single parent can be tough but overall I found it much much better than being in an unhappy relationship.

My ex was moody too. There comes a point where it may get too much. It did with me. Looking back and being honest now after all these years maybe he was just as unhappy as I was.

I moved back home when my kids were 7 and 2 years old this was miles away from him but to this day he remains in contact with the kids who are now grown up.

I've never been bitter. I fiqured it would do me much more harm than him so I just got on with my life as a single parent. Went back to work and 22 years later I'm still working in the same job. I Have never had lots of money but I managed to buy a house which worked out cheaper than renting. My ex still lives in a council house, went on to have 3 more kids. He is happy with his lot and I am happy with mine.