M&S credit card cancelled 26/07/2016 iTunes charge march 2017

toph

"It would only be fraud if you were doing it to avoid paying. It's easier for the card issuers to just reactivate the account and then chase you for the money, which is what they did. Unless you can show you are out of pocket then I don't understand what you are complaining about?"

some people just can't see the wood for the tree's.

i cancelled the card, a few months later i phoned them asking them to stop processing all future requests to the card, they wrote to me telling me no further charges will be processed, 8 months after cancellation they send me a letter telling me to send them a cheque due to them processing an itunes charge to my cancelled card. Do you still not understand what i'm complaining about. Do you consider it normal for a payment service to continue processing payments for you once your relationship with them has ended?


"When you enter into a contract using a recurring payment on a credit card then you giving a cast iron guarantee that you will pay that money. The only way you can make it stop would be to convince the company who is taking money to stop it. They can also take as much money as they want. If their systems mess up and double payments are taken then it can take ages for the refund to be applied."

this is not the case with direct debits, yes they are not the same as recurring credit card charges but cancelling the direct debit prompts the service provider to write to you asking to reinstate it. I can see my direct debits on my online banking and can amend them whenever i want. the same should be true for recurring credit card payments. its also not always clear when entering recurring credit card payment agreement. The insurance company asking if I want to enable next years premiums to be auto paid from the same card is not the same as asking for explicit authorisation to enable recurring charges on the card which can also be charged to the card if i cancel it, the only way to cancel the recurring charge being to ask the retailer to stop it. if it was presented like that i'd decline the offer.



"I've known this for over 20 years"
good for you!!

"You are supposed to keep track of what you are paying on recurring payments and keep them updated."

what happens when the company you enabled the recurring charge with changes name, gets taken over or changes the name of the product the charge is for and the detail no longer matches your nice list?

"Although I can see that it would be useful if they provided a list, but it appears you wouldn't have looked at it anyway."

:mad:
That's just rude, insulting and not called for. What makes you think I'd not check a list of recurring charges?:mad:

"You aren't checking your statements?"
yes I do check my statements for cards I have not cancelled and therefore still receive statements for (online or post), for unusual activity or payments. i don't always remember to look for stuff that should be there but isn't.

the number of slightly different views expressed by people with thousands of posts writing with conviction on this shows its not a strait forward simple self explanatory matter.........

meer53

You would have been aware it wasn't a direct debit as the supplier would have asked for your card number, NOT your account details.

You would never see a list of these payments on your account as your bank doesn't hold the details of the payments, the card issuer does.

These are two different payment methods, you've been caught out but don't want to admit it. At least you'll know next time.

toph

meer53 wrote: »

You would have been aware it wasn't a direct debit as the supplier would have asked for your card number, NOT your account details.

You would never see a list of these payments on your account as your bank doesn't hold the details of the payments, the card issuer does.

These are two different payment methods, you've been caught out but don't want to admit it. At least you'll know next time.

have you read any of what i posted?

i've made clear it wasn't a DD, i was making a comparison between a DD and recurring credit card charge and how its advised to cancel DD's to stop them recurring. i'm suggesting recurring credit card charges should be like DD's in behaviour where cancelling an account stops the recurring charges.

the fact you can't see a list is a problem that should be sorted out.

If i had a debt problem on credit cards, merely cancelling them with the issuer, asking them to no longer process any future payments and shredding them isn't enough to stop them being charged to, even though that seems the obvious first step.

it wasn't clear when i signed up to the App Store that my card would be used for recurring charges, i assumed it was stored for singular transactions, i signed up to Apple music months after cancelling the card and asking M&S to stop processing any future transactions.

toph

:TCaz, you get the gold star for the link.:T

Caz3121 wrote: »

What details did you supply to Apple music for billing? If the account had been cancelled for 5 months before you signed up how did they get the details?
If you mean you signed up in December 2015 what did you think would happen to your contractual payments when you cancelled the card?


only those transactions that you pre-authorised
have a read here http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/banking/recurring-payments

i had assigned this M&S card to my App Store account a while back and then signed up to Apple Music in December 2016, it had an initial 3 month free trial hence the billing in March 2017.


so me phoning M&S and asking them to stop processing all future payments should have been enough to stop them honouring any further recurring charges.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/banking/recurring-payments#cancel

i phoned M&S today and they have no detail of the letter they sent or any charges to the account. they said the account wasn't fully closed despite the previous letter stating it was closed and new transactions would be declined. They are sending another letter confirming £0 balance and that all future transactions will be declined. Not sure i believe them, i may call again and confirm but what more can i and am i expected to do?

I have no idea how my apple music account is being paid for as no Apple transactions on my Amex.

https://www.fca.org.uk/news/news-stories/continuous-payment-authorities-it-your-right-cancel

:TREMEMBER: IT IS YOUR RIGHT TO CANCEL CONTINUOUS PAYMENT AUTHORITIES DIRECTLY WITH YOUR CARD ISSUER:T

Marchitiello

I cancelled another card today and the assistant on the phone asked me if I had any regular payment or "subscription" on this card and that if I did I had to contact the provider to update their records with a new card details....

toph

Marchitiello

that suggests that the recurring payments would fail. which is the behaviour i would expect.

maybe worth phoning the card provider back and asking them to ensure all future recurring payments are rejected and asking them to confirm your instruction in writing.

file the letter and use that to complain if they do honour any future payments.

Marchitiello

I have never set up a recurring payment on a credit card, so does not apply to me. The small print of all credit cards I have had since 1999 have always somehow called for the cardholder to having to cancel recurring payment. They additional comment of updating them serve you as reminder that you should give the the other party updated payment information.

toph

i never knowingly set up a recurring payment on any of my cards either.

i'm not even sure apple operates their service as a CPA/Recurring payment either, nothing on their site to say they do. A forum member here suggested that my issue was with CPA and everyone ran with it.

the finance regulator says:

REMEMBER: IT IS YOUR RIGHT TO CANCEL CONTINUOUS PAYMENT AUTHORITIES DIRECTLY WITH YOUR CARD ISSUER

https://www.fca.org.uk/news/news-stories/continuous-payment-authorities-it-your-right-cancel

Caz3121

There is details here about how Apple take payments
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201359
From what it sounds like is that you signed up for a free 3 month trail of Apple music and used a card as part of the signup that you had already cancelled believing any payment request would be refused
Maybe you planned to cancel after the 3 months free but forgot to and the monthly fee then becomes due and they took that from the card they had been provided with
You will need to check what you actually agreed to within the T&Cs about what you were authorising however it appears that since you have had previous dealings with Apple this was part of a pre-existing authorisation that you possibly gave when accepting the (often extensive!) T&Cs

toph

i think people are reading far to much into this and not understanding the issue is that the card provider accepted the charge on a cancelled card after they said they would stop processing future transactions on it.

i've no issue with Apple or anyone else that made charges to the cancelled card. i wanted the card provider to stop accepting charges so whoever the retailer was would get in contact & i'd have the opportunity to cancel the service or move onto a current payment method. i did not want to have charges being run up on a cancelled card i would not be able check the balance or detail of charges on & then potentially impact credit ratings or have an unexpected bill.
How do i check the card provider actually honoured the instruction to stop processing future charges on a cancelled card where they have previously failed to stop charges, without instigating a charge on it? i wouldn't normally bother but in this instance i had reason to believe they would not stop future charges and it seems i was right to not trust them.