M&S credit card cancelled 26/07/2016 iTunes charge march 2017

[Deleted User]

phillw wrote: »

You can't cancel a recurring payment with the card provider.

You can. It as part of the 2010 BIS reg changes.

toph

Deleted_User wrote: »

You can. It as part of the 2010 BIS reg changes.

and just how do you cancel a recurring payment with the card provider?

clearly cancelling the card and asking the card provider to no longer honour any future payment requests is not sufficient.

i had used the M&S card as the default card for the apple app store, once it was cancelled i left it as the default card as i didn't want to assign a new card and expected all future transactions to be declined. i had hoped this would guard against in app purchases, hackers gaining access to my account and running up purchases or others linked to my itunes account (family sharing) from making purchases on my card.

this behaviour (honouring transactions on a cancelled card) isn't expected and i'd have assumed more people would have experienced problems with this.

is there some time limit that they can do this for?
if its some contract with the card provider, how do i end the contract with the provider?

bris

The payments stop when the cards expire, not cancelled.


The recurring payments continue because they are still authorised on the account and to stop the payment may mean loss of service such as insurance etc.


If you cancel the card you should also cancel any recurring payments. You can do this by telling the adviser at the time that you withdraw any consent for the payments to be made. This isn't new, its been running like this for years.

PeacefulWaters

toph wrote: »

and just how do you cancel a recurring payment with the card provider?

clearly cancelling the card and asking the card provider to no longer honour any future payment requests is not sufficient.

i had used the M&S card as the default card for the apple app store, once it was cancelled i left it as the default card as i didn't want to assign a new card and expected all future transactions to be declined. i had hoped this would guard against in app purchases, hackers gaining access to my account and running up purchases or others linked to my itunes account (family sharing) from making purchases on my card.

this behaviour (honouring transactions on a cancelled card) isn't expected and i'd have assumed more people would have experienced problems with this.

is there some time limit that they can do this for?
if its some contract with the card provider, how do i end the contract with the provider?

the bolded bit suggests you fraudulently tried to obtain a service.

meer53

if its some contract with the card provider, how do i end the contract with the provider?

Do the logical thing and contact the provider ? Or had you not thought of doing that ?

toph

Wow

So by cancelling a card and not assigning a new card to services i may or may not remember assigning the old card to and may or may not know I've pre authorised unknown future payments too is fraud. This situation must happens to millions of people all the time. They can take me to court and fine me for being stupid if I really am committing fraud in this way.

Also withdrawing consent to future payments is not implicit when cancelling a card?

And then asking the card provider to no longer process any future payments is somehow also different from withdrawing consent?

The public need to know this and some simple means of cancelling a card that also cancels all future payments as expected when you cancel an agreement.

What i didn't add at the start was that apple emailed me to say there was a problem in processing the payment (after the 3 month 3 trial) which is when I logged in and changed the card to my Amex. At which point I no longer received any further notifications. As soon as I updated my card I received notifications of pending Apple iTunes transactions on my Amex.
Checking my statements now I no longer see any Apple transactions.

meer53

toph wrote: »

Wow

So by cancelling a card and not assigning a new card to services i may or may not remember assigning the old card to and may or may not know I've pre authorised unknown future payments too is fraud. This situation must happens to millions of people all the time. They can take me to court and fine me for being stupid if I really am committing fraud in this way.

Also withdrawing consent to future payments is not implicit when cancelling a card?

And then asking the card provider to no longer process any future payments is somehow also different from withdrawing consent?

The public need to know this and some simple means of cancelling a card that also cancels all future payments as expected when you cancel an agreement.

What i didn't add at the start was that apple emailed me to say there was a problem in processing the payment (after the 3 month 3 trial) which is when I logged in and changed the card to my Amex. At which point I no longer received any further notifications. As soon as I updated my card I received notifications of pending Apple iTunes transactions on my Amex.
Checking my statements now I no longer see any Apple transactions.

It's simple. You have 2 separate agreements. One with the supplier of your goods/services and one with your credit card provider. Cancelling the card cancels the card. Nothing more. It would never cancel your agreement with the supplier, how could it ?

To cancel an agreement to supply goods/services it's common sense to cancel it with the company who supply you. Not the company who simply send the payment to the supplier.

As you've discovered, once the supplier is no longer able to claim your payments from your cancelled card, they will chase you for their money.

Some card issuers use a system called Visa Account Updater which will automatically transfer existing continuous authority payments from cancelled cards to live ones to ensure continuity of payments, so the onus really is on YOU to cancel directly with the supplier.

derps

meer53 wrote: »

It's simple. You have 2 separate agreements. One with the supplier of your goods/services and one with your credit card provider. Cancelling the card cancels the card. Nothing more. It would never cancel your agreement with the supplier, how could it ?

Exactly this, OP, you made an agreement with the retailers agreeing to pay them with that card. How would they know that you cancelled the card that they have nothing to do with?

The card provider also has no choice but to honour the transactions because the retailers provided valid legal authorisation from you for the money.

Marchitiello

When you "cancel a card and account" they either tell you straight away on the phone or in the letter that follow, to contact any company or service provider using that card/account for recurring payment asking to cancel / or update with new details. I have cancelled several cards over the last two years and all had a statement to this effect on the confirmation letter and few told me this on the phone (when they also tell you to destroy the card, and cheque etc...).

If you cancel your card but a payment is made afterwards or a recurring payment is set up for the first time after cancellation, these will indeed fail.

phillw

toph wrote: »

This situation must happens to millions of people all the time. They can take me to court and fine me for being stupid if I really am committing fraud in this way.

It would only be fraud if you were doing it to avoid paying. It's easier for the card issuers to just reactivate the account and then chase you for the money, which is what they did. Unless you can show you are out of pocket then I don't understand what you are complaining about?

toph wrote: »

Also withdrawing consent to future payments is not implicit when cancelling a card?

When you enter into a contract using a recurring payment on a credit card then you giving a cast iron guarantee that you will pay that money. The only way you can make it stop would be to convince the company who is taking money to stop it. They can also take as much money as they want. If their systems mess up and double payments are taken then it can take ages for the refund to be applied.

toph wrote: »

The public need to know this and some simple means of cancelling a card that also cancels all future payments as expected when you cancel an agreement.

I've known this for over 20 years, I'm sure it has been mentioned on MSE. You are supposed to keep track of what you are paying on recurring payments and keep them updated. Although I can see that it would be useful if they provided a list, but it appears you wouldn't have looked at it anyway.

toph wrote: »

Checking my statements now I no longer see any Apple transactions.

You aren't checking your statements?

I'd probably use gift cards for itunes membership, but I've always avoided recurring payments because they are such a pain.