the snap general election thread

steampowered

hallmark wrote: »

Since 2010. The point when Labour had destroyed the economy

You can repeat this until you are blue in the face, but you still aren't going to convince any right-minded person that the Labour government was somehow responsible for a global recession that started in the US and affected every developed economy.

Herzlos

hallmark wrote: »

I must admit I'm amazed that the advice is to stay inside during a fire. Almost literally unbelievable. I've worked in many office buildings & the advice is always to exit immediately if there's any kind of fire.

In a safely constructed tower block it's the safest thing to do. Fire shouldn't spread between apartments or floors, so unless it's a structural issue staying in your apartment is the best way to avoid smoke.

In this one, the best thing to do was to risk the smoke and get out, but this wasn't a safe one.

Herzlos

GreatApe wrote: »

We could fit every building in the UK with sprinklers and it would save 250 lives a year. However the initial cost would probably be in excess of £60 billion and the ongoing cost of some £2 billion a year for upkeep. That simply isn't wise as those funds spent on other risks would save more people

Except there's no need to fit sprinklers in every house - just the ones with no external fire exit.

In saying that, an external fire exit would have been useless here unless it was sealed/insulated away from the flammable cladding.

Moby

steampowered wrote: »

You can repeat this until you are blue in the face, but you still aren't going to convince any right-minded person that the Labour government was somehow responsible for a global recession that started in the US and affected every developed economy.

Their type are harking back to what worked in the 2015 election. They are behind the times and can't accept things have changed, the fearmongering and austerity agenda no longer works. People expect better. I see it as similar to expectations after WW2. Churchill thought the workers should doff their caps to the upper classes and continue the struggle of the war years for the 'good of the country'. Instead the workers took ownership and said to him ...this is our country as much as yours and we deserve better.....pensions, a cradle to grave NHS, better social housing, better education etc. The main driver of this mood were the armies returning from war. Churchill thought we would be grateful for his leadership getting us through the war and winning...he had a point but he totally forgot the other end of the equation....the power of the workers was growing and they wanted more than they had been offered to date by our stratified class ridden 'Empire'.

Herzlos

sevenhills wrote: »

If I lived in a tower block, I would buy a strong rope and have it in a safe place, it would be like buying a life jacket when sailing.

I'm surprised that high-rises without external exits don't have some kind of self releasing winch/harness set up on one of the windows.

Might not have done much good if the outside is on fire, but it's minimally invasive and should be able to get more people out.

Ronaldo_Mconaldo

Moby wrote: »

Their type are harking back to what worked in the 2015 election. They are behind the times and can't accept things have changed, the fearmongering and austerity agenda no longer works. People expect better. I see it as similar to expectations after WW2. Churchill thought the workers should doff their caps to the upper classes and continue the struggle of the war years for the 'good of the country'. Instead the workers took ownership and said to him ...this is our country as much as yours and we deserve better.....pensions, a cradle to grave NHS, better social housing, better education etc. The main driver of this mood were the armies returning from war. Churchill thought we would be grateful for his leadership getting us through the war and winning...he had a point but he totally forgot the other end of the equation....the power of the workers was growing and they wanted more than they had been offered to date by our stratified class ridden 'Empire'.

And they then threw him out on his ear...and begged for him to come back a few years later. Which he did. A great man.

kabayiri

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

Is there any suggestion that the fire brigade's response to this incident was diminished by cuts? As I understand it, they were there within minutes of the call but were hampered by limited access to the area, inc the inevitable parked cars narrowing the roads.

I think we are all looking for the easy explanations at the current time. It's human nature I suppose.

We need critical evaluation as to what works when dealing with tower block fires.

I get the impression that the best thing you can do is engineer in facilities to buy you time.

Ronaldo_Mconaldo

We're only looking for ways to make out that the Conservatives and those perceived to be better off are all responsible for this whereas the blessed poor are entirely angelic, and their leader, King Jeremy is vomit-inducingly virtuous.

LHW99

What I find particularly worrying about this incident is that the fire alarms weren't working.

It seems as if at least one person heard an alarm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40297466

GreatApe

Moby wrote: »

Their type are harking back to what worked in the 2015 election. They are behind the times and can't accept things have changed, the fearmongering and austerity agenda no longer works. People expect better. I see it as similar to expectations after WW2. Churchill thought the workers should doff their caps to the upper classes and continue the struggle of the war years for the 'good of the country'. Instead the workers took ownership and said to him ...this is our country as much as yours and we deserve better.....pensions, a cradle to grave NHS, better social housing, better education etc. The main driver of this mood were the armies returning from war. Churchill thought we would be grateful for his leadership getting us through the war and winning...he had a point but he totally forgot the other end of the equation....the power of the workers was growing and they wanted more than they had been offered to date by our stratified class ridden 'Empire'.

this is nonsense, you cant just want something and it comes into being

The reason conditions improved post ww2 is because of productivity improvements. Conditions improved virtually everywhere from communist Russia to capitalist america and everything in between thanks to productivity increases one of the greatest of which was electricity and the electric motor enabling higher levels of production and automation

The argument is that over the long term a free market system sees more innovation and productivity improvements than a fixed economy. This seems to be true if you look at america today its where a lot of the innovation and technology is being developed if you look at France what is happening there?

If people want more goods and services people need to produce more goods and services. Its nothing to do with the poor saying they want more to the rich and the rich saying ok that is just childish