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the snap general election thread
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Game, set and match. Well researched. They should be held to account.Their bonfire of 'red tape' and austerity agenda is costing lives.Joe_Horner wrote: »Agreed, but industry (in general terms as distinct from private individuals) is in a position where cost cutting can have devastating effects, as we've seen this week.
On the matter of sprinklers, the (then) Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (Brandon Lewis), who also served as the Fire Minister, had this to say in a Westminster Hall debate in 2014:
https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2014-02-06/debates/14020653000002/FireSprinklersWeek
So, he acknowledged that sprinklers work but was reluctant to regulate on a mixture of possible cost grounds and a purely political requirement to maintain the Conservatives "one in, two out" policy on regulation.
Instead he suggested that the fire industry should sell the systems better to property owners and landlords - effectively "letting the market decide".
That's worked well, hasn't it?
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Game, set and match. Well researched. They should be held to account.Their bonfire of 'red tape' and austerity agenda is costing lives.
The (partly) good news is that since 2007 it is requirement to install sprinklers in newly built residential tower blocks, but unfortunately there is no requirement to retro-fit (unless fundamental change is made to the structure).
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-40293035Chuck Norris can kill two stones with one birdThe only time Chuck Norris was wrong was when he thought he had made a mistakeChuck Norris puts the "laughter" in "manslaughter".I've started running again, after several injuries had forced me to stop0 -
People don't value their lives highly.
How many home owners have sprinkler systems in their own homes?
I don't have them even though in the event of a fire I accept that the chance of dying would be reduced to almost zero. Do you have a sprinkler system in your own home? Why not? Its unfair to beat with a stick 'the free markets' for not doing what you are not willing to do in your own home
Its a cost vs benefit question.
If a sprinkler system is going to cost me £10,000 in my own home and it reduces the chances of me dying or being badly harmed by fire by 1 in 1 million then its simply not worthwhile. It would mean £10 billion to save 1 life. In that instance you are better off spending the £10 billion much more effectively saving many more people using the funds more wisely
The thing here is though, fires are much more difficult to fight in tower blacks, so this is very much an argument confined to tower blocks, from a safety point of view they are not necessary in the average home. I certainly would not live in a tower block without sprinklers to the means of escape areas, would you? According to the link, it would have cost about £200k to install them in this particular tower black, isn't there 120 flats? If so, that is less than £1,700 per flat (I know that they aren't fitted in the flats, that's just the cost allocated per flat).
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-40293035Chuck Norris can kill two stones with one birdThe only time Chuck Norris was wrong was when he thought he had made a mistakeChuck Norris puts the "laughter" in "manslaughter".I've started running again, after several injuries had forced me to stop0 -
Regarding the flats.
Am I the only one that heard one of the residents on the news saying she thought it started in her neighbour's kitchen because she had the door open trying to clear the smoke?
Yes, maybe there was faults in the refurbishment, that still has to be determined, but it had to start somewhere.
I personally have always thought tower blocks above about 12 storeys are a very bad idea, unfortunately there is now far too many people in the country to cope any other way.What is this life if, full of care, we have no time to stand and stare0 -
Enterprise_1701C wrote: »Regarding the flats.
Am I the only one that heard one of the residents on the news saying she thought it started in her neighbour's kitchen because she had the door open trying to clear the smoke?
Yes, maybe there was faults in the refurbishment, that still has to be determined, but it had to start somewhere.
I personally have always thought tower blocks above about 12 storeys are a very bad idea, unfortunately there is now far too many people in the country to cope any other way.
What I heard one resident say on the BBC news was that his neighbour had told him that the fire started in his flat (on the 4th floor) because the fridge 'exploded' (probably just caught fire, exploded sounds a bit over the top).Chuck Norris can kill two stones with one birdThe only time Chuck Norris was wrong was when he thought he had made a mistakeChuck Norris puts the "laughter" in "manslaughter".I've started running again, after several injuries had forced me to stop0 -
How many home owners have sprinkler systems in their own homes?
How many home owners need a sprinkler system in their own house?
This issue is related specifically to tower blocks, where conventional escape (via the window) isn't viable.
The fact is that the passive safety system failed catastrophically, and there was no active system (sprinklers) or escape route (since apparantly a fire escape was "too expensive).
If I lived in a house where I couldn't escape through the door/windows, I'd damn well have a sprinkler system.0 -
Enterprise_1701C wrote: »Yes, maybe there was faults in the refurbishment, that still has to be determined, but it had to start somewhere.
It had to start somewhere, yes, and accidents happen. With 120 apartments, one was going to go on fire eventually.
However, given that a fire in there was inevitable, there absolutely no way it should have spread to any other floors, due to the supposed passive safety design of the building.
Tragically, I have a feeling that whoever is the cause of the fire, rather than the catastrophic safety failures, is the only person who's going to get blamed here and not get away with it.0 -
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From your link:
Another coroner ruled in 2013 that all high-rise buildings should be retro-fitted with sprinklers
Has a coroner got the authority to 'rule' that sprinklers should be fitted? I can understand a coroner recommending, but 'ruling'?Chuck Norris can kill two stones with one birdThe only time Chuck Norris was wrong was when he thought he had made a mistakeChuck Norris puts the "laughter" in "manslaughter".I've started running again, after several injuries had forced me to stop0 -
I can see an argument either way as to whether buildings should be retrospected with sprinklers.
What I find particularly worrying about this incident is that the fire alarms weren't working. How can you have a large tower with all the fire alarms broken. That points to a serious maintenance issue.
The cladding also seems to be a very worrying aspect of this incident.0
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