the snap general election thread

kabayiri

BobQ wrote: »

That is an uncosted proposal.............

What's the ideal rate of change though?

Is there a limit to this rate? How quickly can small business reasonably adjust when facing other pressures like higher business rates; increased NI and pension provision; and maybe even greater competition via a growing populace?

A_Pict_In_A_Past_Life

Some recovery in Sterling as a result of Tory poll recovery:

The pound has recouped some of its steep recent losses thanks to a series of election polls all putting Prime Minister Theresa May on course for election victory.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/05/29/pound-recovers-theresa-mays-weekend-election-poll-recovery/

BobQ

Conrad wrote: »

IFS saying Labours corporation tax will have costs including falling wages and forcing firms to off shore to Ireland etc.

Corbyns politics are so under-grad.

IFS has criticised both parties promises.

BobQ

kabayiri wrote: »

What's the ideal rate of change though?

Is there a limit to this rate? How quickly can small business reasonably adjust when facing other pressures like higher business rates; increased NI and pension provision; and maybe even greater competition via a growing populace?

All good questions. But the point is that it is hypocritical to blame Labour for making a firm proposal without criticising the Conservatives for making a vague one that might well cost more than theirs.

Rinoa

Interesting change of message by the Conservatives since the manifesto problems



Strong and stable leadership is nowhere to be seen.

mystic_trev

Rinoa wrote: »

Interesting change of message by the Conservatives since the manifesto problems


Strong and stable leadership is nowhere to be seen.

Perhaps 'the horse has bolted'?

GreatApe

michaels wrote: »

In France they make employing people very expensive and accept the 10% unemployment that results. Doesn't seem to help with social cohesion though

Firstly they dont have 10% unemployment, like the uk does not really have 4.7% unemployment. Both are sckewed heavily to the short term unemployed. If you look at a more meaningful measure of those unemployed for 6 months or more both crash. That figure is closer to 2% for the uk and 4% for France.

Secondly there are two factors, the price and how difficult it is to hire and fire someone.
It would not impact me much if the law changed the min wage from £7.50 to £10 but it would impact me more if the law kept the min wage at £7.50 but gave workers full rights from day one. I am not saying workers should have much more rights much sooner but that their pay should be higher

There people mostly get paid a living wage by tax credits and benefits. Why not increase the min wage to a level more people can survive on without need for tax credits and benefits?

I also have a big problem with the 'national' bit, 300 quid a week buys a very different lifestyle in Londonderry than it does in London.

The only real big difference is house/rent prices but that is a cost for mostly a small portion of the population as only a small number of homes transact in any given year and most wealth is passed down the generations. So a person inheriting a free house in Londonderry and a person inheriting a free house in London both earning the same min wage will have roughly the same QOL

GreatApe

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

So you want to put a lot of small (and large) companies out of business, increase the cost of living with inflation increasing further, increase interest rates, etc etc

Why do you feel this will put companies out of business?
A lot of the people on min wage do critical jobs that wont disappear. Supermarkets are one large employer of people on min wage. If the min wage was put up what do you think will happen the supermarkets will close down? No of course not people need food and there is a demand for it so the supermarkets will just put prices up a little to cover the additional costs.

There may well be some marginal companies that go under, just like there are always marginal companies going under, but with longer term unemployment at 1-2% and about half a million additional jobs created per year there does not seem a big problem in the economy at the moment so any marginal companies going bust would not be a bad thing if anything one could argue the least productive would go bust and we would all be better off for it

Also, this would create an even larger black market for people working for cash, mainly fed by people such as eastern Europeans and the such that seem to live about 20 people to the house and have no intention of contributing to life here.

How or why do you think it would lead to more people working for cash?
You are not increasing taxes you are just moving it from corp tax to divi tax.
This has already been done its no surprise divi taxes were increased as corp taxes were being lowered. Its just an extension of what has happened recently.

Put corp taxes towards zero, maybe even at zero and just tax the profit via the dividend or CGT. If the company pays out profits via dividends you get to tax it if the company holds the profits its share price goes up and you get CGT out of it.

That seems a potentially better system that having high corp taxes and corps pretending to make their profits in other countries to pay little to zero there.

MABLE

Well I never thought I would vote Labour but in the end Mr Corbyn has got my vote. I did say in a previous post I did not think he was the person for the job but to me Mrs May is too undecided and wishy washy. Anyway my postal vote was sent off yesterday so thats me done for this election.

Also I live in a marginal area where the current Conservative has a majority of 500.

Enterprise_1701C

GreatApe wrote: »

Why do you feel this will put companies out of business?
A lot of the people on min wage do critical jobs that wont disappear. Supermarkets are one large employer of people on min wage. If the min wage was put up what do you think will happen the supermarkets will close down? No of course not people need food and there is a demand for it so the supermarkets will just put prices up a little to cover the additional costs.

There may well be some marginal companies that go under, just like there are always marginal companies going under, but with longer term unemployment at 1-2% and about half a million additional jobs created per year there does not seem a big problem in the economy at the moment so any marginal companies going bust would not be a bad thing if anything one could argue the least productive would go bust and we would all be better off for it



How or why do you think it would lead to more people working for cash?
You are not increasing taxes you are just moving it from corp tax to divi tax.
This has already been done its no surprise divi taxes were increased as corp taxes were being lowered. Its just an extension of what has happened recently.

Put corp taxes towards zero, maybe even at zero and just tax the profit via the dividend or CGT. If the company pays out profits via dividends you get to tax it if the company holds the profits its share price goes up and you get CGT out of it.

That seems a potentially better system that having high corp taxes and corps pretending to make their profits in other countries to pay little to zero there.

It will put small businesses out of business because they simply cannot afford to pay people that much extra - don't forget there is extra costs involved too, NI, the pension opt-ins etc.

As for the bigger black market - there are many farms and trade gangs etc that pay cash for their workers, and a lot of people will only work for cash. A lot of people, even in this day and age, willingly work for less than the legal minimum wage. If that minimum wage increases, then more people than ever are going to be willing to work for LESS than the minimum wage, as I said before this is especially prevalent in the immigrant population, especially the ones that come from eastern European economies. The minimum wage in Poland is about 450 euros per month, in Romania it is less than 300 euros per month. Those people come over here, live in hovels - often 20 plus per house, and send the money home. They do nothing for the economy and are often treated badly.