So i just opened the door to my new house.

Cakeguts

happyandcontented wrote: »

Having dates changed does cause anxiety for anyone but it is compounded if you have autism. The OP says that he was confused by the constant chopping and changing of dates, so I imagine she was worse.

There is making allowances and then there is pandering, I agree one is not productive, but we are not the OP, he is the only one who can judge on the circumstances as they played out which he was involved in, which of those he did.

None of us know the circumstances better than he does. It could be that she had had the house the OP is buying left to her and she decided to sell it and move to a bungalow (close to the neighbours she knows) to make life easier. That being the case her inheritance may have meant benefits and carers were taken away and she now has to fend for herself. This is often what happens to adults with autism as their immediate family ( who advocate for them) dies off. Adults with autism do not have carers unless there is a real need.

Nobody is advocating letting anyone walk all over you in the house buying process, but in these circumstances a little understanding and compassion goes a long way if it can be done. The OP was in a position to do that for the seller and he should be applauded not denigrated. The world would be a better place if everyone could sometimes stand back and say "could I react to situation x in a way which will make a positive difference all round" or should I just go in all guns blazing because I can.

I agree the OP is sorted now but what I think needs to be discussed is a way of stopping this kind of thing happening. It is alright for the OP because he wasn't worried about moving in that day but it would have been a completely different problem if there had been a furniture van full of furniture waiting to be unloaded outside. In that case you couldn't expect someone to accommodate this lady in what SHE wanted to do.

The OP has suggested not completing just before a weekend but that doesn't help the person with the furniture van outside and a house full of the sellers furniture.

The OP also suggested not allowing anything to be left in the house but would that have worked with the lady in question?

What I would like to suggest is that people charge the seller storage costs for every extra hour that any of their belongings are still in the property after completion. This is quite fair because after completion the house no longer belongs to the seller so they have items in a house belonging to someone else without that person's permission. This would also fit in with a buyer being able to invoice a seller if they have to dispose of rubbish left behind. The storage costs should cover any extra cost incurred by a buyer where the seller hasn't given vacant possession on completion.

SingleSue

Cakeguts wrote: »

The personality disorder I was thinking of includes sociopaths. It tends to be caused by children being extremely spoiled by their parents. They lack empathy because of the personality disorder and they only ever do what suits them. They are very self centred and they don't have autism of any kind.

To the people with relatives with Aspergers syndrome what would happen if they were told in advance of moving that on completion day they were not to leave anything in the house because the new owners would change the locks, not give them a key, and so then they wouldn't be able to get in to get anything out of the house any more? So rather than relying on them understanding the inconvenience to someone else make it clear that the inconvenience would be to them in that they would not be able to get into the sold house anymore?

I have a mental illness that is controlled by medication so I don't want anyone else to tell me that I don't understand. Having this illness does not make me inconvenience other people. In fact it is quite the opposite I have a better understanding of what life throws at people so I am more accommodating. I have been told by someone who works in mental health that not turning up to a community group of which the person with the mental illness is a member without telling anyone or just turning up late without telling anyone is down to bad manners not the illness. It is quite possible for someone to have a mental illness and bad manners.

Of the people I have met with Aspergers syndrome/autism the ones who might engage in the kind of behaviour of this lady would not be in a position to own a house because of not being able to hold down a job to pay the mortgage. The ones who could hold down a job don't behave in a way that inconveniences other people.

I can assure you, my children have not been spoilt, nor has their ASD (I have 2 children on the spectrum) been indulged.

As to your question, my son would understand, or I would think he has as I would get him to repeat back to me what I have informed him of. Unfortunately, with the information given in the OP, he would probably take the estate agents answer of yes a few boxes can be left in a completely different way to you or I.

As an example, moving to uni day. He was told and understood that he was going to university on a certain day and that we were leaving at a certain time, neither were negotiable due to the time we had to book into campus to collect his halls keys. However, he couldn't quite put that together with making sure everything was packed and ready to put into the car the night before. His weird brain had processed the information that he only needed to get his bags ready at the time we were supposed to leave despite me telling him that they had to be ready before that.

It was not a fun 24 hours before we left, he couldn't see why I was telling him to get things packed as it wasn't moving to uni day yet and I was getting frustrated that he hadn't packed, a few major meltdowns later because I was going against what his brain was telling him and the car was packed and ready to go :rotfl:

I'm the immovable force against his Aspergic brain, we tangle a bit from time to time.

Re owning a house or holding down a job, I still dream that it will be possible but in my down times, I understand it may not be. For youngest son who has a completely different ASD, he is successfully holding down a part time job (albeit one he got through my eldest son as he couldn't cope with interviews) and is more likely to be able to cope with being a homeowner.

Cakeguts

SingleSue wrote: »

I can assure you, my children have not been spoilt, nor has their ASD (I have 2 children on the spectrum) been indulged.

As to your question, my son would understand, or I would think he has as I would get him to repeat back to me what I have informed him of. Unfortunately, with the information given in the OP, he would probably take the estate agents answer of yes a few boxes can be left in a completely different way to you or I.

As an example, moving to uni day. He was told and understood that he was going to university on a certain day and that we were leaving at a certain time, neither were negotiable due to the time we had to book into campus to collect his halls keys. However, he couldn't quite put that together with making sure everything was packed and ready to put into the car the night before. His weird brain had processed the information that he only needed to get his bags ready at the time we were supposed to leave despite me telling him that they had to be ready before that.

It was not a fun 24 hours before we left, he couldn't see why I was telling him to get things packed as it wasn't moving to uni day yet and I was getting frustrated that he hadn't packed, a few major meltdowns later because I was going against what his brain was telling him and the car was packed and ready to go :rotfl:

I'm the immovable force against his Aspergic brain, we tangle a bit from time to time.

Re owning a house or holding down a job, I still dream that it will be possible but in my down times, I understand it may not be. For youngest son who has a completely different ASD, he is successfully holding down a part time job (albeit one he got through my eldest son as he couldn't cope with interviews) and is more likely to be able to cope with being a homeowner.

Knowing what you do about your sons do you have any helpful suggestions as to how completion and moving could be explained better to someone who may not have comprehended the implications of not moving everything out of a house on a specific day? Allowing them extra time is not possible because of the the current contract and the affects on a buyer so it needs to be something that will help them to realise that they have got to comply with the time scales.

SingleSue

Possibly a written timeline with frequent reminders of the plans to back it up. It would have to be a completely broken down timeline with days to pack a room on a particular day for example, it couldn't just be start packing house a certain amount of days before.

That way, a particular day will be associated with a particular task and thus less overwhelming, more organised and absolutely clear of the expectation.

Lots of faff for those involved but it makes it more likely that things will go closer to plan than if just a general overview or verbal instructions are given.

happyandcontented

SingleSue wrote: »

Possibly a written timeline with frequent reminders of the plans to back it up. It would have to be a completely broken down timeline with days to pack a room on a particular day for example, it couldn't just be start packing house a certain amount of days before.

That way, a particular day will be associated with a particular task and thus less overwhelming, more organised and absolutely clear of the expectation.

Lots of faff for those involved but it makes it more likely that things will go closer to plan than if just a general overview or verbal instructions are given.

The problem is that if there is no one around willing or able to do this, then the whole task becomes overwhelming so very little gets done at all.

missprice

Cakeguts wrote: »

Knowing what you do about your sons do you have any helpful suggestions as to how completion and moving could be explained better to someone who may not have comprehended the implications of not moving everything out of a house on a specific day? Allowing them extra time is not possible because of the the current contract and the affects on a buyer so it needs to be something that will help them to realise that they have got to comply with the time scales.

I know this was for single sue and she has replied but to add to it if i may,

What is implicit must be made explicit. That's the best way i ever heard of making an asd person aware of what needs doing.

So depending on the person, not just a list with this day this room must be packed up,
More like
On Tuesday at 9am use these boxes to pack everything from that wardrobe and under the bed and posters/pictures. After lunch please pack any curios, that desk and all bedding in these boxes. Move all these boxes to living room. Stack carefully.
On Wednesday morning 9am please pack these top kitchen cupboards in these boxes after lunch pack bottom kitchen cupboards in these boxes, leave kettle in kitchen and coffee, leave a space in this box for them to go in. . Place all boxes except the one with space in hallway.

That's probably a bad example but some people need even more detail.
It's a lot harder if there is no-one around to do this and help.

SingleSue

missprice wrote: »

I know this was for single sue and she has replied but to add to it if i may,

What is implicit must be made explicit. That's the best way i ever heard of making an asd person aware of what needs doing.

So depending on the person, not just a list with this day this room must be packed up,
More like
On Tuesday at 9am use these boxes to pack everything from that wardrobe and under the bed and posters/pictures. After lunch please pack any curios, that desk and all bedding in these boxes. Move all these boxes to living room. Stack carefully.
On Wednesday morning 9am please pack these top kitchen cupboards in these boxes after lunch pack bottom kitchen cupboards in these boxes, leave kettle in kitchen and coffee, leave a space in this box for them to go in. . Place all boxes except the one with space in hallway.

That's probably a bad example but some people need even more detail.
It's a lot harder if there is no-one around to do this and help.

I agree and that was what I meant (but didn't explain properly due to time constraints/posting on phone difficulties). It's not a bad example either, it's pretty much what I have had to do with not only my son but a family friend too.

Cakeguts

SingleSue wrote: »

I agree and that was what I meant (but didn't explain properly due to time constraints/posting on phone difficulties). It's not a bad example either, it's pretty much what I have had to do with not only my son but a family friend too.

So maybe in certain situations this could be issued by the solicitor?

missprice

Cakeguts wrote: »

So maybe in certain situations this could be issued by the solicitor?

Possibly there could be made a standard how to pack list. With as much detail as possible without actually boring anyone to death reading it.

I have an asd (adult) child and it's more than just a list, i have to repeatedly tell child that x will happen on y day. I currently have to say it one month before (assuming i have that long) three weeks before, two weeks before and twice in the final week. And yet still sometimes it comes as a shock to child. And that's just a change that i make, like moving furniture. I know!

Cakeguts

It is a couple of years since I bought a house and I can't remember if there is anything in the legal documents that tells the seller exactly what they must do on the day of completion to avoid legal complications or even the risk of being sued. I am just wondering if this information should be included along with the fixtures and fittings list.

There have in the past been posts on here about sellers letting themselves back into houses after completion to take things they have forgotten and also about buyers turning up and waiting for sellers to finish packing after completion. It makes me wonder if people don't realise that they are putting themselves at risk of breach of contract of vacant possession if they are not out of the house by the time it is owned by someone else.

It happened to us. We bought a house which completed at around midday and the seller was still packing in the middle of the afternoon. Luckily we didn't need move in. However the fact that the buyer doesn't need to move in doesn't mean that the seller hasn't breached the contract.

It would be quite interesting to know how many people have completed on houses and then turned up to find the seller still in the house with items still to move out.