Potential dispute over car not mentioned in father's will

Yorkshireman99

relaxtwotribes wrote: »

You have received lots of good opinions on this matter except the one you are looking for. So I'll do that for you.
Possession is nine tenths of the law. Keep the car.

Completely wrong advice! The OP has as a minimum taken it with the owners consent. If he keeps it is theft. Either way it is a criminal offence.

leespot

BobRoberts wrote: »

Apologies for wasting everyone's time.

I thought I was mostly just replying to people's comments.

Also thought that with forums people were free to browse, and choose to post or not post.

I do find it ironic that the consensus on the Money Saving Expert forum is for me to get into debt to the tune of a few grand to unnessarily buy a car, and for my mum to shell out about a grand a year unnecessarily.

Anyway, I won't take up any more of your time.

You came here for advice, and you have received it - albeit not quite the answers you seem to want.

Nobody has said for you to get into debt - I believe saving for a car is the way to go. You don't own the car you're driving - your mother does. She wants it back, and is entitled to it back. What she does with it is nothing to do with you at all. The car isn't worth anything to you because you don't own it.

You haven't wasted anybody's time - we all post here of our own volition.

Malthusian

I have a solution. The OP should find someone else who owns a car but, in his personal opinion, doesn't deserve to have one. And crucially, someone meeker and less assertive than his mother, who won't be as bolshy about asserting their property rights. Then steal their car instead.

The forum may be called Money Saving Expert but taking other people's stuff is not one of the ways we advocate of saving money.

BobRoberts

What are you talking about? "Doesn't deserve to have one"? Its got nothing to do with deserving to have anything. Its about the fact that it would never get used. You know, sometimes common sense trumps all else. Apparently not here.

The notion that I'm the bad guy here, stealing something is a gross misrepresentation of the situation.

If she actually needed the car it would be completely different. As it is, I don't believe its in her interests to own a car, with all the financial implications, not to mention hassle. So excuse me for not just going "go on then Mum, you just shell out £1,000+ a year that you categorically don't need to."

To twist that into me being out total advantage of, and rob her, is ridiculous.

I suppose if I tried to stop her sending a grand a year to the Nigerian Lottery, I'd be a bad guy too, for stopping her from doing what she wanted.

mrschaucer

Quote
"My father, before he died, said I could have his car. I only passed my test last February and did not have a car when he died in in July last year, and I took the car after a visit in August. (I live in England, she lives in Scotland)."
Unquote
So father gifts car to son but son not able to drive it away at the time as he hasn't passed his test. Father dies and son takes car away.

The OP hasn't said that when he did drive the car away his mother was ranting and raving at him not to take it - it sounds like she accepted the situation as her husband had already "given" it away. It would seem to be only later that she had another think and decided that it would be better "for her" if she still had it.
Doesn't really change the options though - either give the car back, call it a day and have little more to do with her, or continue banging your head against the brick wall that is a demanding awkward mum who you don't seem to like much.

Yorkshireman99

mrschaucer wrote: »

Quote
"My father, before he died, said I could have his car. I only passed my test last February and did not have a car when he died in in July last year, and I took the car after a visit in August. (I live in England, she lives in Scotland)."
Unquote
So father gifts car to son but son not able to drive it away at the time as he hasn't passed his test. Father dies and son takes car away.

The OP hasn't said that when he did drive the car away his mother was ranting and raving at him not to take it - it sounds like she accepted the situation as her husband had already "given" it away. It would seem to be only later that she had another think and decided that it would be better "for her" if she still had it.
Doesn't really change the options though - either give the car back, call it a day and have little more to do with her, or continue banging your head against the brick wall that is a demanding awkward mum who you don't seem to like much.

AIUI the father said he could have it after he died. If so it formed part of the estate but was not mentione in the will, or it was an intestate estate and was NOT the son's propertry to take.

mrschaucer

Well, I've read through the thread again, and the only info on whether it was a "gift" or not is what I've quoted above. Perhaps Bob can confirm whether the car was an outright gift in his dad's lifetime (which Bob couldn't at the time take away) or whether dad said he could have it after his death, in which case whatever the will said would determine ownership, as Yorkshireman says.

BobRoberts

mrschaucer wrote: »

The OP hasn't said that when he did drive the car away his mother was ranting and raving at him not to take it - it sounds like she accepted the situation as her husband had already "given" it away. It would seem to be only later that she had another think and decided that it would be better "for her" if she still had it.
Doesn't really change the options though - either give the car back, call it a day and have little more to do with her, or continue banging your head against the brick wall that is a demanding awkward mum who you don't seem to like much.

Timeline is that I passed my test in February, my Dad died in July, and I took the car in August. In September my Mum came down to us for her birthday, and I was able to drive her to York for a weekend for her birthday, and was able to drive up to see her at Christmas.

There was no ranting when I took the car, and my understanding was that she was OK with it. After all, she had zero need for it.

Basically Think she has issues which go pretty deep, and really the car issue is just another way of these issues manifesting themselves. Which is a big part of why returning the car won't actually resolve anything. It will just find a way out some other way.

Anyway, I have written to her calmly explaining the costs and hassle of owning it, and said that if she still wants it back, to find a nominated driver for the insurance, and for them to agree that going down that path is the way to go.

At which point my hope is that common sense will prevail.

getmore4less

Yorkshireman99 wrote: »

AIUI the father said he could have it after he died. If so it formed part of the estate but was not mentione in the will, or it was an intestate estate and was NOT the son's propertry to take.

Depend on what was said,

that could well be a gift with reservation where he has legal title before death.

The chances of the OP establishing it is was is not going to be easy if challenged if hey did not ask for the gift to be backed up in writing.

SevenOfNine

BobRoberts wrote: »

Anyway, I have written to her calmly explaining the costs and hassle of owning it, and said that if she still wants it back, to find a nominated driver for the insurance, and for them to agree that going down that path is the way to go.

At which point my hope is that common sense will prevail.

I suppose that could be seen as as small step forward, you offered to return a car SHE owns, IF she complies with YOUR conditions for returning it.

As a separate observation, she's not on the fringes of the dementia spectrum is she? Some of the things you've said about her do sound like it.