Electric cars

AdrianC

Martyn1981 wrote: »

This sounds interesting, even promising ..... though I admit to understanding very little.

GBatteries Leverages AI & Intelligence To Amp Up EV Charging Speeds

Add a bit of generic buzzword-du-jour AI to charge monitoring software.

(Of a cordless drill demo)
"Using their tech, the battery was able to charge in a staggering 11 minutes, 19 seconds."
...compared to how long without their tech?

NigeWick

jeepjunkie wrote: »

Zoe is leased battery which is not cheap

You can buy the battery along with the car.

shinytop

Martyn1981 wrote: »

TM3 LR capable of 450 miles when a 20 min fast recharge is added. Is that the end of range anxiety for potential BEV buyers? [I'm assuming many models, from many companies will achieve similar results in the next few/five years.]

My motorcycle has a range of 400 miles when a 5 min fast petrol stop is added. And my mobile phone will last a week if an 8 hour slow nightly charge is added. The fast charging is impressive but it's a bit of a stretch touting a range of 450 miles - if that were really true and they weren't 80 grand or whatever I'd consider one.

Martyn1981

shinytop wrote: »

My motorcycle has a range of 400 miles when a 5 min fast petrol stop is added. And my mobile phone will last a week if an 8 hour slow nightly charge is added. The fast charging is impressive but it's a bit of a stretch touting a range of 450 miles - if that were really true and they weren't 80 grand or whatever I'd consider one.

It's true. The standard range+ costs half that, but the article is about the long range model.

gzoom

Another reminder for me today how Tesla have got it so right for EV motoring experience.

170 mile today Leicester to West Midlands Safari park and back, total time spent in the car about 5hr including traveling, 'safari', and having a picnic in the car (air con is very useful in 30+ heat).

We didn't need to charge to get home but wife really wanted a Coffee, and given our daughter was alseep anyways I poped into Hoopwood services enroute where there are 12 Tesla chargers.

4 cars were already charging when we arrived but with so many bays free still not an issue.

Despite our car having the slowest charge rate on current Tesal Superchargers (100-115KW peak), by the time I had gone to the loo, ordered a take away coffee, and got back to the car the battery charge rate had gone from 39% to 68%.

I'm still amazed how such a relatively small US company can get the EV ownership experience so right, but even more amazed no other manufacture has copied Tesla's approach to EVs.

AnotherJoe

silverwhistle wrote: »

I have to say I just laugh when I see a certain poster on this particular thread and prefer to listen to those with actual real-life experience: thanks Gzoom and others.

It's not a mature market, obviously, and it'll be some time before the second-hand market matures, but at least experience is showing that longer term concerns about batteries have been over-rated.

My current car cost £4K nearly five years ago, and I accept that I'll pay more for my next one, but I really don't want an ICE now. Something like a current Zoe, but with owned battery.

That would be, err, a Zoe with an owned battery then
IMO Renault shot themselves in the foot by first starting out giving the impression batteries failed after a couple of years so better to rent those, that EVs came by default with an extra monthly cost probably as much as many spend on petrol, and that they only do battery rental.
None of these needed to be true but it stuck in the consciousness.
And they still persist with battery rental models though i am pretty sure no one else does anymore.
I'm driving an EV whose monthly payment is only double what the battery rental of a Zoe might be. And then you see Zoe owners bigging up the experience by stating "its only costing me (say) £150/month" but they omit the extra £50-£100 monthly battery lease cost on top. Doesn't do anyone any favours to mislead.

DrEskimo

Agreed. Pretty much every use profile, it would be cheaper to own the battery, as well as more flexible, less issues with insurance and more flexibility with selling.

I also think it utterly confused the second hand market and is inflating prices.

Many proponents will point to the fact that so many new cars are still bought with the lease so it must be popular. Of course it ignores the fact that 90% of new cars are bought on PCP, and based on the PCP terms the lease works out cheaper as the GFV is set stupidly low on a battery owned model....I don't image the PCP buyer could care less if they paid their entire monthly amount to the car, or most of it to the car and some to a battery lease. The second hand buyer like me sure does though!

Guess I shouldn't complain. Low supply is keeping the price of my battery owned Zoe above what I paid for it...!

silverwhistle

AnotherJoe wrote: »

That would be, err, a Zoe with an owned battery then

I read that line and had to leave the computer, and was composing a reply in my head... I've just got back and read the rest and have seen there's no need to bother!


Yep, I have solar panels and spare power but low mileage; the battery lease model doesn't work for me. I also keep cars a long time so depreciation is not an issue. The leases are essentially an insurance, but don't appear to have become cheaper with the favourable experience of batteries.


With the expansion of the market Renault are seriously going to have to reconsider their model. As DrEskimo points out it adds a layer of complexity to the situation, a bit like the rent-a-roof scheme for solar panels.

almillar

Renault weren't running around telling people batteries would fail after a while, that was the public (and industry!) perception just a few years ago. And they were also very expensive. It's since turned out that batteries actually do quite well in cars, with a combination of clever battery management, and especially temperature control. There's a new Zoe coming out, no pricing announced yet. This is now Renault's opportunity to quit the battery lease model.
And BTW, they don't care about used sales, they care about new car sales.
The battery rental starts at £50 IIRC, and goes up according to mileage.

And then you see Zoe owners bigging up the experience by stating "its only costing me (say) £150/month" but they omit the extra £50-£100 monthly battery lease cost on top. Doesn't do anyone any favours to mislead.

But it did cost me £151 per month, including £80 battery rental!

zeupater

almillar wrote: »

... And BTW, they don't care about used sales, they care about new car sales ...

Hi

Actually, like most businesses, they're concerned about revenue , so that would include new sales, leasing of cars & batteries, maintaining asset values for resale after trade in, maintenance & distribution revenue (dealership model driven) and anything else that could make a corporate profit for them ....

If there was effectively no (or little) value in used vehicle sales for a particular model, the impact on new vehicle sourcing decisions would likely be pretty severe, so of course they're highly interested in aftersales & protecting their used vehicle reputation ...

The very fact that this discussion on battery leasing appears wherever Renault EVs are mentioned and the fact that much of the commentary is negative should be very disturbing to the manufacturer & they have to take note to avoid seeding further brand ambiguity in consumer minds ....

HTH
Z