Electric cars

AdrianC

DrEskimo wrote: »

The Vauxhall e-Corsa can be bought for £27,140, and using the PCP deposit contribution of £2,615, could be bought outright for £24,525. I would of though that the Zoe Gen 2 would need to be discounted to a similar level to compete....

By the time the e-Corsa arrives, the other two versions of the same car (e-308 and e-C3) are going to be imminent, too.

It's going to be a crowded marketplace, and price is going to be important. Not just relative to other BEVs, but relative to ICEV and PHEV, too. But, of course, in the UK at least, much of that market is financed, not bought, so it's going to be the PCP/lease numbers that will be most important.

But, if there's one thing the 00s move to diesel told us, people are willing to spend a lot to get a perceived small saving in fuel and VED.

DoaM

What does PICG stand for?

almillar

In Renault's home market (Europe) in the first 5 months of 2019 an imported competitor vehicle (TM3) outsold the Zoe by ~20% and it wasn't even available in numbers for much of the time ... some of the European countries didn't start getting deliveries in that period either! ....

You're joking, aren't you? What about all the other years Zoe was for sale? You're comparing 5 months in the Zoe's last year before being replaced, with a completely different type of car, that has lots of pent up demand. Yes, Zoe has 'sold well'. It's been the best selling EV in Europe at several points. If you're arguing that they could have sold more, sure, I'll accept that, but to say that it didn't sell well sounds like an anti-EVer!

zeupater

AdrianC wrote: »

By the time the e-Corsa arrives, the other two versions of the same car (e-308 and e-C3) are going to be imminent, too.

It's going to be a crowded marketplace, and price is going to be important. Not just relative to other BEVs, but relative to ICEV and PHEV, too. But, of course, in the UK at least, much of that market is financed, not bought, so it's going to be the PCP/lease numbers that will be most important.

But, if there's one thing the 00s move to diesel told us, people are willing to spend a lot to get a perceived small saving in fuel and VED.

Hi

Surprised you're not hailing Tesla's Q2 production & sales data as well as their order book announcement that came out overnight .... seems like there were a number of vehicles loaded into the new extended supply chain (export) that pulled down the Q1 figures (as discussed!) which have reappeared in the form of Q2 sales being significantly higher than Q2 production!

Odd really, volume related revenue higher than volume related cost in a record quarter should go a long way towards addressing cashflow, with further efficiency measures helping margins and they've got new plant, new models, further process vertical integration, battery technology uplifts, branded financing, leasing & insurance offerings all to come in the near future ... just think of what the cumulative effect on the group's bottom line will be, especially when usage of their energy distribution network (superchargers) starts to ramp up with all of these additional units ....

Interesting times if legacy automotive executives have a BMW mindset! ....

HTH
Z

AdrianC

zeupater wrote: »

Surprised you're not hailing Tesla's Q2 production & sales data as well as their order book announcement that came out overnight .... seems like there were a number of vehicles loaded into the new extended supply chain (export) that pulled down the Q1 figures (as discussed!) which have reappeared in the form of Q2 sales being significantly higher than Q2 production!

Shall we look at their production numbers over the last four quarters, then?

Q3 2018 - 80,142 cars assembled.
Q4 2018 - 86,555 cars assembled.
Q1 2019 - 77,100 cars assembled.
Q2 2019 - 87,048 cars assembled.

Well, looks like those bottlenecks are well and truly resolved... But it's OK, the order backlog's getting bigger. Bloomberg retired the Model 3 production tracker at the end of May, still below 6,000 cars/week - and one reason they retired it was they'd overestimated Q1 production by 26%. <wince>

Q1 2019 was another loss-making quarter - $700m, on top of the full FY 2018 loss of $1bn. Cash reserves were down from $3.7bn at the end of Q4 to $2.2bn at the end of Q1, back to about where they were at the end of Q2 last year.

Martyn1981

AdrianC wrote: »

Shall we look at their production numbers over the last four quarters, then?

Q3 2018 - 80,142 cars assembled.
Q4 2018 - 86,555 cars assembled.
Q1 2019 - 77,100 cars assembled.
Q2 2019 - 87,048 cars assembled.

Well, looks like those bottlenecks are well and truly resolved... But it's OK, the order backlog's getting bigger. Bloomberg retired the Model 3 production tracker at the end of May, still below 6,000 cars/week - and one reason they retired it was they'd overestimated Q1 production by 26%. <wince>

Q1 2019 was another loss-making quarter - $700m, on top of the full FY 2018 loss of $1bn. Cash reserves were down from $3.7bn at the end of Q4 to $2.2bn at the end of Q1, back to about where they were at the end of Q2 last year.

You forgot a few things, such as demand exceeding supply, not all countries yet having open order books for the TM3, Shanghai factory expected to be producing in the next 6 months, start of TMY production in the next year ..........

it's almost like you are doing it deliberately .......:think:

But at least you are fair and are openly attacking all the other companies for preforming so much worse than Tesla ...... well I'm sure you'll get around to it eventually ........ ????

AdrianC

Martyn1981 wrote: »

You forgot a few things, such as demand exceeding supply

Umm, perhaps you misunderstood the bit where I pointed out that the order backlog was increasing? Despite, as you say...

not all countries yet having open order books for the TM3

The actual quote from the Q2 update letter, btw, is...

Tesla wrote:

...thus we are entering Q3 with an increase in our order backlog.

Shanghai factory expected to be producing in the next 6 months

Yes, for the Chinese market. How many of those Q2 deliveries were in China?

start of TMY production in the next year ..........

Will that be additional production capacity, or will it be stretching the existing capacity even thinner...?

DAC1980

Hello.
Why don't you lease one for two years before you go elec. Just lease (no balloon payment)

You may even be able to lease an elec one to try?

zeupater

almillar wrote: »

You're joking, aren't you? What about all the other years Zoe was for sale? You're comparing 5 months in the Zoe's last year before being replaced, with a completely different type of car, that has lots of pent up demand. Yes, Zoe has 'sold well'. It's been the best selling EV in Europe at several points. If you're arguing that they could have sold more, sure, I'll accept that, but to say that it didn't sell well sounds like an anti-EVer!

Hi

The statistics are the statistics and having looked at the monthly sales from launch through to the end of May, once inital ramping up of production had occurred everything effectively plateaued until an approx 60% uplift in late 2018, which has effectively maintained a new level to date ....

For the five months in question Renault's Zoe has been produced in higher numbers than any similar period since introduction, therefore H1 2019 will be the record half year for Zoe sales, this is what's been compared to the TM3, which to the end of May outsold the Zoe in it's home market by around 20% ... that's 20% more vehicles in a period when the TM3 wasn't even being imported for much of the time and had absolutely no RHD sales at the same time as the Zoe achieved it's own record for production & sales, and they're doing this with a more advanced product offering!

My argument is that Renault have been caught napping ... they have been content to be the leader in their home market sector, have likely expected the likes of Tesla to have more delaying issues than they could manage within a given window & have therefore fallen into the usual market sector leadership trap of becoming very complacent, which has allowed their market leading position to be conceded to competitors however anyone looks at it!

This and the recent statements by BMW & other legacy vehicle manufacturer executives is particularly worrying ...

HTH
Z

Martyn1981

AdrianC wrote: »

Umm, perhaps you misunderstood the bit where I pointed out that the order backlog was increasing? Despite, as you say...

The actual quote from the Q2 update letter, btw, is...



Yes, for the Chinese market. How many of those Q2 deliveries were in China?


Will that be additional production capacity, or will it be stretching the existing capacity even thinner...?

But at least you are fair and are openly attacking all the other companies for preforming so much worse than Tesla ...... well I'm sure you'll get around to it eventually ........ ????