Electric cars

Martyn1981

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

I'm pretty sure that we're starting to see a drop-off of new car sales in certain sectors due to anticipation of EV releases ...

HTH
Z

Only Cali, not America, but I have to be honest and say I'm surprised to see that the TM3 was the top selling vehicle for 2018 H2. And Cali tends to lead America, when it comes to new tech, trends, policies etc.

Tesla Model 3 Was #1 Top Selling Car In California In 2nd Half Of 2018 — #CleanTechnica Report

NigeWick

Martyn1981 wrote: »

We're not there yet, but it's getting closer. And at the end it addresses my major concern which is supply limitation.

Hyundai and Kia are blaming the long waiting times, now over 52 weeks, on the shortage of batteries.

TBH, I believe they're afraid of the decreasing money on their ICE vehicles and ongoing servicing profits. It will be the same for all traditional manufacturers unless they bite the bullet and go all out for BEVs. If they don't, I think they'll let Tesla get away from them completely.

buglawton

Hyundai haven't earned much from my ownership. Under the 5 year warranty they had to do about £3,000 worth of warranty work (trivial issues, never a breakdown or MOT failure) and a couple of recalls. Leaving me a happy customer who'd buy this brand again if design and price are right. After 5 years I moved to independent servicing. They might win on EV if they do a 'killer application' of vertical integration where they finance the lease and look after the vehicle all in one really sharp deal.

zeupater

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Only Cali, not America, but I have to be honest and say I'm surprised to see that the TM3 was the top selling vehicle for 2018 H2. And Cali tends to lead America, when it comes to new tech, trends, policies etc.

Tesla Model 3 Was #1 Top Selling Car In California In 2nd Half Of 2018 — #CleanTechnica Report

Hi

:huh: ... a tangential moment ... :huh:

Not mentioned US, California, Tesla or M3 at all ... there's plenty of evidence & reporting of retraction in sales for certain vehicle sectors within the UK & elsewhere which is being 'blamed' on diesel emissions (etc), however seeing that there are plenty of non-diesel vehicles available as immediate alternatives within the same/similar sectors there doesn't look to be the appetite to purchase, so the question revolves around 'why ?' ...

As mentioned, I personally know a couple of people that have decided that their current vehicles will be their last ICE purchases and are simple waiting for model availability & better prices before buying EVs, but additionally I also know of a company that's holding back on replacing a fleet of 4x4 diesel SUVs pending the release of petrol hybrid alternatives from the same manufacturer ... that's a UK manufacturer that's been linked to the falling sales/Brexit debate, but I've been told by one of their premier UK customers that their current purchasing stance is one of improved environmental product offering, not economic uncertainty ... they're pretty sure that this is the case for other medium to large fleet operators too!

It's not that it's a new phenomenon either, the 4x4 manufacturer has been just one of many that have been very slow to respond to changing customer demands for about a decade, it's just that the change in their base 'loyal' market has been masked by a surge in demand within the sector by aspirational buyers that don't even require the capabilities provided throughout the vehicle range. After 3 decades of the same brand of 4x4 vehicles being on our drive we moved to another brand purely on environmental grounds, but that's nothing compared to the number of people we know (remember, we're pretty rural!) that have moved away from this brand because their marketing department & vehicle range no longer suits what used to be their main market ... I'm sure that they'd completely lost the plot years ago but have ridden their 'luck' well, but recent decisions & changes in the market that they now occupy have reared around and bitten back which shouldn't really be a shock for anyone ...

I'm unsure whether our own next purchase will be another PHEV or pure EV, but will likely look to put the decision back a few years to see what happens on availability & pricing ... nothing to do with second hand residual value as it's more than trumped by loss of capital if depreciating more frequent new(/er) purchases, so we're likely joining the other's mentioned in the earlier post, the accumulated effect being a noticeable reduction in sales until the EV build rate & prices start to become more realistic.

Considering the amount of high profile coverage that environmental issues have been given over the past decade (in particular) the bulk of the automotive sector seems to have done little other than to offer & promise future alternatives with no real timeline ... what we're now starting to see around here (UK, not USA or elsewhere!) is a customer reaction that they weren't expecting!

HTH
Z

Martyn1981

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

:huh: ... a tangential moment ... :huh:


Considering the amount of high profile coverage that environmental issues have been given over the past decade (in particular) the bulk of the automotive sector seems to have done little other than to offer & promise future alternatives with no real timeline ... what we're now starting to see around here (UK, not USA or elsewhere!) is a customer reaction that they weren't expecting!

HTH
Z

Yep, absolutely, they've almost sleep walked into a nightmare (not sure that analogy works).

BTW - What I meant, was that whilst the article I found was only about Cali, not what you were talking about (in general), it shows that when and where the option becomes available, EV's will win out. So it looks like the game is already over, it's now simply down to supply and rollout.

If the legacy companies don't act now, and fast (and they look like they are waking up) they will be left behind by customers. So no longer is Tesla the enemy, the problem is 'us', and I don't see how the companies expect to win that fight if they don't adapt.

buglawton

I've seen mentioned a few times on this thread that EVs will reduce aftermarket profits - service, parts etc due to the simplicity of the drivetrain. And that some might even be constraining supply, due to fear of that lost profit.

Maybe not. Warranty costs are a big factor that eat into profits. They will drop. So, will Hyundai and Kia, who always offered the longest warranties anyway, be cleaning up?

Martyn1981

buglawton wrote: »

I've seen mentioned a few times on this thread that EVs will reduce aftermarket profits - service, parts etc due to the simplicity of the drivetrain. And that some might even be constraining supply, due to fear of that lost profit.

Maybe not. Warranty costs are a big factor that eat into profits. They will drop. So, will Hyundai and Kia, who always offered the longest warranties anyway, be cleaning up?

I'm, not sure how the companies will fair, plus or minus, but it's the dealerships that are screwed with EV's. In the US the dealerships operate as a very strong industry body, with legislation to protect them*, so they really, really aren't too keen on flogging/promoting EV's.

*Legislation came about to protect families and firms from the car companies, as you could pay a fortune for dealership rights, then watch as the company sold rights to another dealership nearby, or even across the road.

Tesla ran up against this legislation as it stated that cars can only be sold through your dealerships. Tesla won, as they didn't have dealerships, so the legislation was, in many states changed to 'only sold through [STRIKE]your[/STRIKE] dealerships'.

Martyn1981

This 'tickled' me, turns out I'm saving money thanks to all the BEV owners on here (if UK impact mirrors US), thanks guys, cheque in the post! :-

McMahon cites a 2017 study by M.J. Bradley & Associates, which analyzed the impact of EVs in five US states, and found that the benefits flow not only to EV owners in saved fuel and maintenance costs, and to society in reduced carbon emissions, but also to electric ratepayers in the form of reduced fixed costs. In fact, the study found that in some cases utility ratepayers benefited more than the EV owners themselves. For example, in New York the study found $265 in annual benefits from a plug-in vehicle: $18 for the owner, $166 for the utility customer, and $81 for society in reduced emissions.

Electric Vehicles Could Lower Electricity Prices

Martyn1981

They took their time, but last night Tesla announced that the $35k TM3 is now open for ordering.

Tesla Finally Opens Up Ordering On The $35,000 Standard Range Model 3!!

They also made some other smaller price changes, and introduced a 4th (by range) TM3 model:

Tesla also surprised us with a new Standard Range Plus configuration that offers buyers a bit more range — 240 miles of range — that brings with it an improvement in performance. The Standard Range Plus configuration can go from 0–60 mph in just 5.3 seconds and has a top speed of 140 miles per hour. That’s damn fast and is only $2,000 more than its little brother, at $37,000. The Standard Range Plus also comes with “most premium interior features,” which is a nice bonus and serves as the cherry on top of what looks like the sweetest deal in the family.

buglawton

The article led me to a UK airport shuttle service using Teslas. https://www.drivenairport.com/
Good prices and possible rideshare option. But, fully booked out at weekend for Heathrow. Shame.