Electric cars

Martyn1981

AdrianC wrote: »

Economies of scale are not the same thing as technical advances.

You said mature, BEV's are not mature. I'd suggest this is obvious, but perhaps you've been licking too much car paint.

Martyn1981

jeepjunkie wrote: »

Does anyone have an EV in this thread?

Lots do (BEV's and PHEV's). Stageshoot posts loads of info on ownership, have a scroll through.

ElefantEd

We've got Nissan Leaf, driven 100,000+ miles in it, excellent car, enjoyable to drive, occasional range anxiety. Next car will be another EV, but with a longer range so we never have to worry about charging other than at home.

buglawton

silverwhistle wrote: »

This flurry of the thread has made me laugh. Someone still insists they're not anti-EV, but continues with their unrealistic negativity and expectations that things will change overnight but takes delight in pointing out whenever they don't.
It's quite sad really.

There are reasons to be in 2 minds about EV. A technology that should be a no-brainer is going to take aeons to actually roll out to the general British public. All we've had so far from government is one proclamation that new ICE cars won't be allowed from 2040. A nice soundbite plucked from the air.

I don't trust private companies to knock local authorities heads together to use planning laws to provide a standard unified charging infrastructure. So we've had a central government proclamation, some subsidy cuts and nowt else.

NigeWick

jeepjunkie wrote: »

Does anyone have an EV in this thread?

On my second. 30kWh Nissan Leaf last year and 40kWh #rapidgate enabled Leaf this year. Ordered a 64kWh Hyundai Kona that should arrive August next year.

Well pleased with driving electric due to low costs involved. My charger allows me to use solar when there's enough and the car lets me charge on Economy 7 when I need to. Ovo offered two years subscription to the Polar charging network meaning that the most I pay is 10.8p per kWh. Wednesday I was getting 3.8 miles per kWh at 65mph on dual carriageways. The hotel I stayed at Tuesday night had a charge point that was free to me as a guest.

NigeWick

buglawton wrote: »

A technology that should be a no-brainer is going to take aeons to actually roll out to the general British public.

All production has to do is double every year and it will all be over in eight years. As of yesterday, 8% of new cars in Canada are electric, due to Tesla Model 3 production.

Herzlos

buglawton wrote: »

I don't trust private companies to knock local authorities heads together to use planning laws to provide a standard unified charging infrastructure. So we've had a central government proclamation, some subsidy cuts and nowt else.

I'm sure the EU will insist on standardized car charging ports at some point (if it already hasn't), since it has done for phone chargers. Even if we're not in the EU we'll likely piggyback that standard (because EU spec cars will be configured for it).


Then as demand increases, supply will, according to the applicable standards.



So our government being hopeless shouldn't stand in the way of EV usage - they are already useable and often cheaper than the equivalent ICE once you factor in all of the ownership costs, even outside of the congestion charging zone.

almillar

You said mature, BEV's are not mature

Can I perhaps suggest that EVs (and PHEVs) are a collection of mostly mature technologies.
The electric motor is certainly mature, LiIon is a certain amount of mature - enough to be bounced around under a car anyway. Plenty of work to be done optimising it in a car (temperature for example) but it's still going to be a chamical reaction that gives off 3.5ish Volts.

Does anyone have an EV in this thread?

Yes, had a Zoe 22kWh and now have a Soul EV 30kWh.

I'm sure the EU will insist on standardized car charging ports at some point (if it already hasn't)

It wants CCS for rapid chargers, and Type 2 is kindof already there for AC/not so fast chargers. Plenty of Chademo connectors around too. There are basically 3 plugs (excluding Tesla), and I don't see any need to standardise further.

zeupater

AdrianC wrote: »

Economies of scale are not the same thing as technical advances.

Hi

Oh no, not needing some basic business pointers yet again! .... :wall::D

The two are invariably linked ... as scale increases the economic case for investment in technical advances in higher value (than previously justifiable) automated manufacturing & assembly plant/machinery improves leading to ...

a - Capital investment
b - Reduction in unit cost
c - Reduction in consumer pricing
d - Increase in consumer affordability
e - Increase in sales volumes
f - Increased cash-flow, assets, profitability to drive organic growth
g - Unless market saturation reached, GOTO a

That's the basics of what typical 'economies of scale' do, they drive technical advances and use the resultants of those advances to strive for continual on-going cost reduction through market growth and/or penetration.

HTH
Z

Martyn1981

Can I perhaps suggest that EVs (and PHEVs) are a collection of mostly mature technologies.

It's certainly a suggestion, but I'd say extremely misleading. Cars are mature*, and electric motors are relatively mature (though Tesla seems to be building more efficient motors than other companies).

However, the single biggest difference between an ICE and a BEV, certainly in size, weight and cost, is the battery and that is nowhere near mature. It's also highly doubtful that Li-ion will be the battery choice of the future (long term) if solid state batts or other cheaper and more energy dense, or faster recharging options develop. Obviously batt prices are nowhere near mature.

So EV's are not at all mature, that's why they are sitting at the bottom of the disruption 'S' curve, in fact they haven't quite snuck onto the 'S' part yet, but are almost there.

*Looking at the shell, steering etc - but even then it looks like the wiring loom might be significantly revised with the MY having 95% less wiring than the TM3. Then there's the natural shift to heat pumps for heating/cooling, and 4Wd being provided by two or more motors rather than a multitude of gears and shafts. So perhaps the car itself has gone back to infancy now that I think about it.