Electric cars

buglawton

Gloomendoom wrote: »

It depends on how you count the parts.

How many parts in an EV battery? How many parts in an IC engine?

OK Gloom, I've got around to doing the 'will you Google that for me' step you wanted and got a very ballpark figure which of course one could discuss in itself over the horizon:

https://www.quora.com/How-many-moving-parts-does-an-electric-car-have

...apples to apples comparison

EV
Single Motor design 30 - 40 Moving parts total

ICE
Several hundreds of moving parts... the biggest count savings are in the motor and gearbox, obviously... electric cars should be dramatically more reliable.

And of course IMO, that reliability should also reflect back into ease of manufacturing and quality control, dramatically fewer recalls and warranty costs thus allowing a lower sticker price...I'd take Tesla and his high end pals out of this equation as that's something of a vanity project. I'm talking urban runabouts here.

AdrianC

buglawton wrote: »

ICE
Several hundreds of moving parts... the biggest count savings are in the motor and gearbox, obviously... electric cars should be dramatically more reliable.

If you take the average modern car, the physical "moving parts" of the engine are already massively reliable. The problems come with the electronics on and around them. Electronics do not age well - who'd think of daily use of a 10-15yo computer or phone? Sure, some of that is down to technological advance, but not all. A 10-15yo desktop or laptop is still perfectly capable of meeting the requirements of most people, so long as you don't go down the path of ever-bloatier software upgrades.

gzoom

buglawton wrote: »

The deep puzzle is why EV prices are coming down so slowly.

Actually the amount of battery you can buy for you £ has increased by a substantial amount.


Back in 2012 when the Leaf first came out Nissan was charging £30K for a car with a real life range of 80 miles, Hyundai will now sell you a £30K car with nearly 250 miles of EV range.


The current top spec Tesla Model S 100D has about 300 miles of range, for £90K+. The long range Model 3 has 10% less range for half the cost.


So prices are coming down, but don't forget to factor in inflation, slowly rising interest rates, and any incoming trade tariffs, new cars are getting more expensive. I went to have a play on the BMW website the other day, and managed to some how spec a diesel BMW 3 series to over £50K....without even ticking all the optional extras!!

buglawton

AdrianC wrote: »

If you take the average modern car, the physical "moving parts" of the engine are already massively reliable. The problems come with the electronics on and around them. Electronics do not age well - who'd think of daily use of a 10-15yo computer or phone? Sure, some of that is down to technological advance, but not all. A 10-15yo desktop or laptop is still perfectly capable of meeting the requirements of most people, so long as you don't go down the path of ever-bloatier software upgrades.

I've never had an electronic device that has mysteriously broken down no matter how old. Got some old 2G Nokias in a draw, 13 years old, work perfectly. I've had a number of more recent devices go defunct due to firmware updates dropping the performance (needing more memory etc) and ecosystem changes. There were some valve radios in the family that lasted 50 years with one repair between them.

silverwhistle

Nor me. Dropping them, particularly down the loo, had an effect, and certainly with phones there are battery and software issues, but I hate to think how old my amplifier is, or even my turntable and CD player, both of which have moving parts.


Prices are also going to be impacted by the fall in the £. That Vespa I mentioned at c.E6000 would be around £500 more than rates a couple of years ago, and that's without any of the other frictional costs coming along.

AdrianC

buglawton wrote: »

I've never had an electronic device that has mysteriously broken down no matter how old.

Lucky you.
"Capacitor rot", phone batteries turning into balloons, screens dying as contact strips shrink, etc etc.

Martyn1981

AdrianC wrote: »

Lucky you.
"Capacitor rot", phone batteries turning into balloons, screens dying as contact strips shrink, etc etc.

"You've got 22 problems but the batt ain't one."

Martyn1981

gzoom wrote: »

Actually the amount of battery you can buy for you £ has increased by a substantial amount.

Back in 2012 when the Leaf first came out Nissan was charging £30K for a car with a real life range of 80 miles, Hyundai will now sell you a £30K car with nearly 250 miles of EV range.

That's reminded me of something mentioned on Tesla Time News recently by Jessie who owns a Leaf - He pointed out that the $9k cost of the TM3 upgrade to long range adds approx 90 miles ....... or a whole early years Leaf! Interesting way to think about it.

buglawton

AdrianC wrote: »

Lucky you.
"Capacitor rot", phone batteries turning into balloons, screens dying as contact strips shrink, etc etc.

Correction, I did have 1 ballooned battery in a Nokia. New battery off Ebay for £4. Sorted. Ah and at work, a pair of capacitors that expanded and the VDU became unreliable. As budgets were tight the option was for me to go back to a smaller monitor, So I smuggled it home, soldered in 2 replacements, took it back to work, job's a good 'un.

I expect EV cars to be stunningly reliable and easy to fix when they do go wrong (albeit with expensive parts).

AdrianC

Now look at the cost to replace the touchscreen in the centre console of a car that's been out of production for six or seven years, and which is needed for everything from HVAC to audio to nav to vehicle config menus.