Electric cars

AdrianC

gzoom wrote: »

That's because they aren't just a 'motor' company

Exactly my point.

their battery factor is going to generate just as much income/may be more than sales of cars.

Sticking it under the mattress will generate a LOT more income than they're getting from selling cars.

dacouch

NBLondon wrote: »

What I think could/should take off is the electric car-derived van - for city deliveries where the route and range is predictable/plannable and overnight charging at depots can be set up. There's a trade-off of battery weight and space versus cargo but if batteries are improving then an electric version of a Transit Connect, Peugeot Partner, Citroen Berlingo could be a winner - and if more cities start clamping down or charging more, it will become the norm.

My friend has a company in London delivering solely with electric vans.

http://www.gnewtcargo.co.uk/

I saw Cadogan Tate (The high end removal company) have a 12t electric Removal Truck

Car_54

gzoom wrote: »

But hey I rather give my £££ to a company trying to change the world for the better rather than an investment company out to turn a quick profit.

Not everything is about profit, this is what Musk has said about S/X pricing. In effect the cars are mega expensive with high profit margins to fund/develop the Model 3. You know what, that kind of thinking is why I would never buy a similar priced Audi/Merc/BMW etc. I rather the money made from me buying a car is used to fund the next generation EVs instead of been used to pay share holders/executives to have a free lunch.

How do you imagine Audi/Merc/BMW etc. have historically funded the development of new generations of vehicles, other than by using some of the profits?

Tesla's shareholders will expect to see a return at some stage - history suggests sooner rather than later.

gzoom

AdrianC wrote: »

Sticking it under the mattress will generate a LOT more income than they're getting from selling cars.

Do you really think Tesla are lossing money on the cars they sell?? The only difference between the £140k P100D and £60k 60D is 25kWh of battery and a larger rear motor, and they sell more P100D cars than the 60D.

Their average profit margin on each car is over 30%, its the same ball park at Porsche.

The reason they loss money is because they push every $ back into developing the Model 3 and building the gigafactory. Having worked with a silicon valley company directly the reason the US has companies ljke Apple, Google, Amazon, Tesla is because they try to achieve things other people dismiss and only think about 'profits' afterwards. Its a refreshingly different attitude to the way business is done here in the UK, your negative outlook on everything is exactly why the a company like Tesla or Apple will struggle to appear in Europe.

Gloomendoom

£850 for a cabin air filter.

Insane!

AdrianC

gzoom wrote: »

Do you really think Tesla are lossing money on the cars they sell??

Yes.

Their average profit margin on each car is over 30%, its the same ball park at Porsche.

Cost of goods sold have consistently been going up, as a percentage of revenue, since 2011.

http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/tsla/financials

Excluding depreciation and amortisation, COGS has gone up from 61% in 2011 to 66% for 2015. Including D&A, from 70% to 77%.

The reason they loss money is because they push every $ back into developing the Model 3 and building the gigafactory.

R&D expenditure has fallen from 102% of revenue in 2011 to just 19% in 2015. It's risen in actual money, sure - 4x between 2011 and 2015, while revenue has risen 20x.

Remember, that gigafactory requires investment of 25x total annual revenue in order to qualify for those tax breaks.

Having worked with a silicon valley company directly the reason the US has companies ljke Apple, Google, Amazon, Tesla is because they try to achieve things other people dismiss and only think about 'profits' afterwards.

Absolutely nothing gets developed and built by a company that's run out of cash to burn and gone under.

Amazon's market capitalisation is 4x revenue.
Google's market cap is 7.5x revenue.
Apple's market cap is 2.8x revenue.
Tesla's market cap is 10x revenue.

NBLondon

dacouch wrote: »

My friend has a company in London delivering solely with electric vans.

http://www.gnewtcargo.co.uk/

I'm impressed - the website claims over 100 electric vehicles when I was expecting a smaller operation with a handful. The electric Kangoo they use is exactly what I was thinking of for the sort of small business that does local deliveries with one to three vans; or indeed small tradespeople. As long as the business has a yard or something to set up a charging point, they can be topped-up as needed.

I discovered in last night's paper that the Met Police are trialling the BMW i3 (Range Extender) http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/scotland-yard-to-adopt-new-fleet-of-hybrid-police-cars-and-bikes-to-combat-toxic-air-in-london-a3455436.html and by coincidence, as I walked past a Fire Station this morning - it appears the London Fire Service are too as there was a marked one on the forecourt. Makes sense for city use - set up enough charging points at stations.

NBLondon

AdrianC wrote: »

Electric milkfloats, back in the '70s, are the obvious example.

That reminds me - there's a hotel chain near my workplace that uses a red electric van (basically a milk float with a closed body) to shunt laundry and supplies about between their sites (a couple of miles radius in Central London). It's on an X plate (1982 ish) and presumably charges at night.

Speed and possibly range was the issue back in the day - but improved technology could bring them back.

Wonder if you could build a refrigerated version for supermarket home delivery/Ocado? If it was big enough for the daily load and the chiller didn't take so much power that it compromised the range - that should be a hit. Quick charging at the depot while loading would be popular.

NigeWick

gzoom wrote: »

That's because they aren't just a 'motor' company, their battery factor is going to generate just as much income/may be more than sales of cars.

I expect part of the long term plan was to sell electricity as well as solar panels, solar tiles, batteries, cars, vans, lorries and more.

Martyn1981

gzoom wrote: »

That's because they aren't just a 'motor' company, their battery factor is going to generate just as much income/may be more than sales of cars.

Some recent news on Tesla:

Tesla’s Battery Revolution Just Reached Critical Mass

Tesla moves beyond electric cars with new California battery farm

Edit: And they are to bring SolarCity within the Tesla brand name too:

BREAKING: SolarCity brand to disappear