Electric cars

AdrianC

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Wow, that's a lot of negativity.

You call it negativity. I call it reality.

You suggest the withdrawal of free recharging on the base model 3 is a sign of business weakness.

No, on the entire range.

So you seem to be desperately looking for negatives, when the company is doing well.

Losses of 22% of annual revenue, total government subsidies of 60% of annual revenue - half of which is dependent on investment of 2,500% of annual revenue, and in the middle of a massive domestic political upheaval with direct effects on that sector - and a market capitalisation of 1,000% of annual revenue.

That's not a company that's doing well. That's a company that's in the middle of a hype bubble, and burning cash as fast as it can get its hands on it.

NBLondon

This has been fascinating reading...

I see Teslas and BMW i3s every day in Central London - plus the occasional Leaf and i8. But they are outnumbered by Priuses (Prii?). So my gut feel is that there are still limitations of infrastructure and until the majority of people feel confident that they can get a charge when they need one out and about without major planning the take-up will be patchy. I mean, it clearly works for some of you - but what about someone who drives on business and doesn't necessarily know where or how far they will be going until that morning? They would need to be sure of an overnight charge and know their likely maximum for the day.

For most of the driving I do, an EV would probably be fine. But - I don't have a driveway. To charge at work I would have to a) drive into Central London b) fight for the one space near the office. (Or hang a 20m extension cable from a 9th floor window!) So a non-starter at the moment.

Back in 2012 - the BMW eMini was on trial with the Olympic Games fleet. That didn't take off... Some of the learning probably went into the i3. But I've read that there will be another go at an eMini - which could do well.

What I think could/should take off is the electric car-derived van - for city deliveries where the route and range is predictable/plannable and overnight charging at depots can be set up. There's a trade-off of battery weight and space versus cargo but if batteries are improving then an electric version of a Transit Connect, Peugeot Partner, Citroen Berlingo could be a winner - and if more cities start clamping down or charging more, it will become the norm.

AdrianC

NBLondon wrote: »

What I think could/should take off is the electric car-derived van - for city deliveries where the route and range is predictable/plannable and overnight charging at depots can be set up. There's a trade-off of battery weight and space versus cargo but if batteries are improving then an electric version of a Transit Connect, Peugeot Partner, Citroen Berlingo could be a winner - and if more cities start clamping down or charging more, it will become the norm.

Electric milkfloats, back in the '70s, are the obvious example.

But Citroen sold an electric Berlingo through dealerships in the late '90s - not just in France, but in the UK, too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ_VHJsYKqM
They also sell one now. http://business.citroen.co.uk/electric-vehicles/citroen-electric-vehicles/citroen-berlingo-electric/
And Nissan have an electric NV200. https://www.nissan.co.uk/vehicles/new-vehicles/e-nv200.html

There are probably others.

NigeWick

Martyn1981 wrote: »

The French have built a stretch, but the cost is insane compared to just putting PV on rooves, carparks, even artificial road tunnels/canopies.

But, solar and wind generation were very expensive to start with, "but baby look at them now."

I believe that this technology will eventually come down in price too using something like Graphene or another yet to be discovered substance that will be capable of cheap production. We are living in exciting times.

Martyn1981

AdrianC wrote: »

You call it negativity. I call it reality.

So when do you predict the company will collapse, as I'd like to track your claim?

AdrianC

Martyn1981 wrote: »

So when do you predict the company will collapse, as I'd like to track your claim?

I'm a realist, not psychic.

Martyn1981

AdrianC wrote: »

I'm a realist, not psychic.

Then give me a real(ish) answer? From your dissection, it sounds like they are about to implode any second. Will they make it to the weekend?

AdrianC

And, right on cue, Tesla take another step away from being "a car company", as they ditch the word "Motors" from the name.

gzoom

AdrianC wrote: »

And, right on cue, Tesla take another step away from being "a car company", as they ditch the word "Motors" from the name.

That's because they aren't just a 'motor' company, their battery factor is going to generate just as much income/may be more than sales of cars.

Batteries are the now been bought in huge quantities by utility companies as a way to smooth out/meet peak demand. Running a single power station 24/7 and storing up unused electricity at night so that peak demand can be met is alot cheaper than building two power stations just to meet peak demand and than having to turn one off/reduce output at night.

https://electrek.co/2017/01/30/tesla-cto-energy-storage-growing-as-fast-as-we-can-humanly-scale-it-gallery-powerpack-station/

gzoom

AdrianC wrote: »

That's a company that's in the middle of a hype bubble, and burning cash as fast as it can get its hands on it.

Well I've just given them another £850 of my hard earned cash to have the HEPA filter upgrade added to our X when it's delivered.

https://shop.teslamotors.com/collections/model-x/products/enhanced-air-quality-package

Strange how Tesla seem to be able to make us part with so much of our hard earned cash when I don't even like paying £1/hr for parking and would rather do a 15 minute walk!!

But hey I rather give my £££ to a company trying to change the world for the better rather than an investment company out to turn a quick profit.

Not everything is about profit, this is what Musk has said about S/X pricing. In effect the cars are mega expensive with high profit margins to fund/develop the Model 3. You know what, that kind of thinking is why I would never buy a similar priced Audi/Merc/BMW etc. I rather the money made from me buying a car is used to fund the next generation EVs instead of been used to pay share holders/executives to have a free lunch.

"“In order for us to produce the Model 3, we’re critically dependent on the revenue we receive from the people that buy the Model S and Model X. So, it’s important to bear in mind…the thing that is enabling the Model 3 to exist, is fundamentally the people that are buying the Model S and Model X today and historically.”