Electric cars

Martyn1981

NigeWick wrote: »

Imagine say 3 million battery EVs averaging 30kWh each connected to the grid charging from "free" solar

This raises a massive 'side effect'. A lot of EV's will be parked up during mid day, either at home, or whilst the owners are in work.

PV's low cf (capacity factor) with a summer bias, and a mid day bias, means that the maximum we can install depends on the level of leccy demand, after which restrictions need to come into force. Also, 'too much' supply will force down spot prices at midday lowering the income potential for PV farms.

However, the natural rollout of EV's solves this problem. Every million cars charging at 2kW, would allow about 3GWp of additional PV to be installed in the UK. Stationary batteries/storage and water heating diversion have similar benefits.

So PV and EV's are almost perfect companions, and EV's bring a similar benefit to nighttime wind generation too.

Martyn1981

AdrianC wrote: »

It did. Then it discharged again, because it was supplying power back to the grid.

That's kinda the whole point of it, right?

Nope!

It discharges a small amount to the grid first (5pm to 7pm) before charging a large amount all night. Then you jump in it, and drive to work. Right?

[Edit - Average mileage in the UK is 8,000 miles pa. That's about 22 miles per day, which is about 7kWh at 3m/kWh. So a 30kWh Leaf gets home with 23kWh, discharges 2-4kWh at peak (if settings allow this), then charges up 9-11kWh over night. Simples! M.]

Martyn1981

Ford USA seem quite positive about electric cars going forward:

Ford says electric vehicles will overtake gas in 15 years, announces all-electric 300-mile SUV, hybrid F-150, Mustang, and more


But ..... it's not quite as big a change as the headline suggests. Is it more EV's than ICE's in 15 yrs.... nope .... is it more EV's being sold than ICE's in 15 yrs ..... not how I read it ......is it just that the model range of EV's (and hybrids) will outnumber the model range of ICE's ...... I think so.

Also, it looks like they are promising a few EV's, but mostly hybrids. So it's certainly a big change from Ford, but not quite the 15yr revolution that the headline suggests.

Personally, whilst the idea of hybrids is great, and the Insight and Prius proved the battery technology, which was essential, will we really need dual purpose cars in 15yrs? Won't we pick EV or ICE based on the role of the vehicle, and avoid hybrids as they will cost more. I don't know!

gzoom

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Ford USA seem quite positive about electric cars going forward:

Ford says electric vehicles will overtake gas in 15 years, announces all-electric 300-mile SUV, hybrid F-150, Mustang, and more

Don't get confused by a new announcement made to keep the EPA happy with real commitment.

The CEO of Ford thinks much like Adrian C , he said as recently as Dec 2016

"the promise of an electric-car revolution hasn't just failed to materialize — it's actually retreated.

The reason is simple: consumers don't want electric cars. It's the D-word — demand. And demand isn't there."

This is after Tesla announced they had 300K+ pre-orders on the Model 3, a car with no price, details or even production date...but clearly that isn't enough of the D-word for Ford.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/ford-ceo-biggest-problem-for-electric-cars-2016-12

Ford has shown virtually no real commitment to EVs, their investment in EVs is tiny compared to GM/VAG/Damiler/Nissan-Renault.

Ford was first in line to lobby Trump to to dismantle the emission regulations set out by the EPA.....But to every ones amazement Tesla was one of the first companies invited to be on the advisory board to the president, apparently Trump only owned two American made cars, one is a Cadillac can anyone guess what the other car is :rotfl:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/elon-musk-donald-trump-advisory-council-a7474416.html

Jlawson118

I find Amsterdam a really interesting place, you can walk along the canals or any of the streets and you just see cars parked up at the side plugged into chargers. And these aren't just your normal little electric cars that you see every so often over here, these are Audi A3's and similar cars.

I've often wondered why we don't really see them over here, but then I realise that Holland is pretty flat, so they don't perhaps need the energy to get up hill like they would in the UK..

I find Tesla card intriguing though, they look so beautiful yet they're so expensive. If the government want people to drive these cars, then the price should be lowered. Otherwise to me, a Tesla car just looks similar to a Jaguar in places, which you can get for around £30,000 opposed to £70,000..

Martyn1981

UK electric vehicle boom drives new car sales to 12-year high

Alternative fuel vehicles, mainly electric cars, such as the Nissan Leaf, increased by a fifth to reach a record 4.2% share of new vehicle registrations, beating a previous high of 3.6% in November last year.

Petrol cars were also up strongly, gaining 8.9%, with diesel car registrations down 4.3%, continuing the fall seen in December, amid suggestions of higher taxes to curb emissions.

almillar

So your car has been sitting, plugged in, for days - and when you get in it to drive somewhere, it's flat.

No, that would be really stupid, wouldn't it?! You would have to be able to 'opt-out' of discharging, or set a minimum charge to be left with.

AdrianC

Martyn1981 wrote: »

UK electric vehicle boom drives new car sales to 12-year high

Let's look at that headline in more depth, shall we?

174,564 new cars in Jan 17, up 2.9% (5,062 cars) on Jan 16.
Electric cars 4.2% (7,332) in Jan 17, up from 3.6% in Nov 16.

So there's an increase of 5,062 new cars registered, which includes an increase of approximately 1,050 electric cars.

In other words, the number of internal combustion cars registered has increased by nearly 4x as many as electric cars. Without any increase in electric cars, there would still be a record high. The increase in total registrations is only just larger than the total of electric registrations.

Two of the three best-selling cars are from a manufacturer lambasted in this thread today as not taking electric cars seriously. The third is from the manufacturer at the centre of the recent diesel emissions testing issues.

NigeWick

AdrianC wrote: »

It did. Then it discharged again, because it was supplying power back to the grid.

That's kinda the whole point of it, right?

Nope. The point is to only allow it to discharge when you want it to. If you want to drive the car later, don't let it discharge.

But you're just trying to wind people up aren't you? :beer:

NigeWick

Martyn1981 wrote: »

whilst the idea of hybrids is great

I now disagree as they have proved the battery technology. Now they are just a way for oil companies to keep making money. That said, many people still need the range offered by hybrids and I understand that going fully electric is going to be gradual for a few years.

I have mentioned Tony Seba (Clean Disruption book) before. His prediction is that all new vehicles will be electric by 2030 as his graphs from previous and current technologies show. Batteries are starting to beat his projections purely with economies of scale. Once Evs have more than 200 miles realistic range and are cheaper than petrol or diesel engined vehicles without subsidies it will be all over. Especially when 350 & 400 kW charging is rolled out. Quicker if governments start charging a carbon tax for polluting vehicles.