Cashback Guide for Dummies

MattOsprey

mobilejunkie wrote: »

I have another contract (I have 8 current ones all together) with Mobiles2YourDoor but am extremely wary of them and wouldn't take any of my friends their until I'm happy with them. I am expecting problems there too.

Hi mobilejunkie,
Can I ask why you are concerned with M2YD? They are part of Phones4U. Why are they unreliable in your book?
The reason I ask is, they are offering the U600 12 month contract 11 months free, with Vodafone.
The alternative is the D600 with e2save (CPW) 10 months free on a 12 month contract.
Although the M2YD has less minutes (500 not 800), their redemption time states 60 days! this looks good to me.
Please can you advise of any problems expected.
Cheers.
Matt

mobilejunkie

Hi Matt.

I am wary simply because when I researched phones4u I came up with little but almost universally bad feedback - both about their shops and their internet site. I have that deal with Mobiles2yourdoor on 12 months free on Vodafone actually; but I won't take my friends there (unless they accept the risks) until I am more certain of the way they do things and their clarity and reliability. I have used cpw a lot - but they play lots of tricks now and I am only confident with them because if they don't play by the rules I have them by the short and curlies.

I also sent many emails to Phones4u asking questions a few months ago when first considering them. I got automated responses only and was most angry with them. If they are like that when you're not a customer then watch out when you are!

Thus far Mobiles2yourdoor have been ok. The proof of the pudding comes in the cashback consumption however; they immediately broke one of their t&c even before I took out my deal (although I was fully aware of it).

Things change with a remarkable speed with these companies now; cpw used to be (usually) superb, but whilst some things are still good much is now appalling with them. Yet people still post saying they would go with them becasue they's had excellent results there in the past. There has been a stream of such people recently posting that they are finding things have changed - maybe they should have read these threads before finding out the hard way!

I reserve judgement on Mobles2yourdoor. One of my reasons for trying them was so that I could understand their quirks etc. and (if satisfied and confident) take others there now that there really are very few alternatives. Meanwhile I am limiting my risk with them too.

MattOsprey

Hi mobilejunkie.
Thanks for that.
I think I will give them a go, but as you say, you have to be aware of pitfalls and be willing to stand your ground.
Follow their t&c's and all should be okay.
I will decide tomorrow, and then bite the bullet one way or another. I think that the 2 months for the redemption will sway it for me.
Thanks again.
Matt

Ferris

mobilejunkie wrote: »

12) Consider contacting the administrators or liquidators and lodging a claim with them; it wont cost anything and although it's highly unlikely to net a payment there's not much to lose.

reluctant though i am to query any of mr. junkie's wise words here in his own thread, i think that the above is not always the best advice. i might be wrong, but as i understand it (from the sorry aftermath of the forward cellular debacle a few years back) the administrators or liquidators take control of all of the company's assets, and then deduct their fee for dealing with them, which includes contacting all creditors (cashback customers included). in some cases however (as with forward cellular) they then continue to make deductions for the assets for all the 'extra' work that administration entails, and that includes fielding calls from irate/concerned customers.

put another way, if 1000 people call up to enquire from the administrators, and they're charging £x per call or per hour, then the pot of money available for divvying up in the end will be that much reduced. it's a no-win situation in a way, but at least it means that the collective power of a forum such as this one comes into its own. one person's concise and well-prepared call can inform a thousand other customers...

that's all from memory, so it might be completely wrong!

mobilejunkie

Mr junkie thinks that's a good point - in other contexts too (as when the same happened with thousands bombarding cpw to confirm 0845/70 numbers WERE still included in their bundles even when it was operfectly clear they were ,onths after O2 themselves stopped including them. As I predicted, cpw withdrew them too after a bit of that "extra work" - though there may well have been other reasons for that too.

I wasn't actually thinking of phone calls. In the case of Mobile Affiliates, I sent a one-page factual letter only (to which they didn't reply anyway) and then filled in the on-line form(s) once they became available. I'm not anticipating ANY return, but if you don't pay for the stamp you definitely won't get any (apart from the on-line form which, if/when it appears, is a better medium).

mobilejunkie

But not a good one...

Most of the lesser dealers have gone bust this year. Three of the worst ones still cling on by their fingernails but are highly unlikely to survive. The fact so many DO try to keep going I see as a positive (unlike most). There's a lot of rubbish on these threads nowadays - mainly from people who had no real idea what they were doing or how the game is played, or turned their delight in getting something totally free into bitterness and pointless attacks on everyone when they lost out, commencing with the dealers who went under and progressing to the networks and then anyone else who crossed their sights. It makes me smile when I read a post saying that a minnow was supposedly a very large outfit etc. - one of the very things (and related to the same company I had in mind!) I warned against months ago in my first post on this thread. Guess you can lead a horse to water...

It has to be said that even previously excellent and "safe" dealers have now purposefully changed policy to become disreputable organisations who actively try to confuse customers to the extent that they ended up confusing the hell out of themselves and even ignore their own t&c. I single out cpw for special mention here - a great retrograde step for them and for us.

If you go back to my original groundrules it's all in there still. Don't take things at face value... do your research... follow the threads and keep up to date... understand the rules form the start... copy everything at the time you order, send in your claims, etc. etc. Sadly most people don't follow many of these rules and end up in difficulty I'm afraid.

So, in this new era there are crusades to ban cashback deals, people relying on how good companies were in the past, multiple and repeated confusion over the actual t&c people should be following - and long after they signed up to the deals, at that. The question now is, where does that leave us? In my view the answer is as follows:-

1) STOP the ban-the-cashback waggon. If you don't like the deals, don't do them - but please STOP trying to take away the choice of everyone else. Some of us know what we're doing - and do actually try quite hard to warn those who don't BUT who COULD find out first IF they bothered. If you got burned (and I have too on rare occasion) lick your wounds and move on but don't start telling the rest of us what we can and cannot chose to do in future. If you like nannies, hire one - don't use our taxes to buy one to keep Big Brother company.

2) STOP assuming that just because - and this time I will name cpw - a dealer WAS excellent, trustworthy and reliable in the past it still IS.

3) FOLLOW the groundrules (post one) or don't play. For most people (and those who can't weigh up or accept the risks but wait 'til it all goes wrong and then blame everyone else) DON'T do cashback deals at all.

4) If you have got a deal, have followed the groundrules so you can prove what you need to prove, DON'T sit and write letters and emails to the dealers for months on end. Once they're late paying, prod by phone/email, then send a LBA (covered previously) and (if they don't cough up promptly) SUE. Give them a week and they'll take a month. Give them a month and they'll take a year. Give them 2 weeks in the LBA should you need to write one, then sue.

5) DON'T accept changes to the rules after the game has started. It seems like a new passion for every single dealer to try this on - and many let them do it. I won't. They stick to the orginal rules or I sue. Their choice. Be a mug if you wish; they have already started their collection so you won't be alone. Of course, if you haven't followed the groundrules from day one a mug you will be so you won't have much choice I'm afraid.

Maybe there's nothing new under the sun, but the environment has changed for the worse and the basics are more important than ever.

ferret

So who are the current reliable and unreliable companies to go with (in your opinion)

Can I take it that

Safe

Dialaphone
E2save / CPW / OSPS (if you carefully log everything)


Possibly Safe

Phones2U / Mobiles2YourDoor


Unsafe

?


???

Mobiles Please

mobilejunkie

I've never used Dialaphone because their deals aren't as good, but by most of what I've read they are the safest. Cpw are safe in the sense they are unlokely to go bust; however, nowadays they certainly aren't transparent or customer orientatated and deliberately mislead and confuse. Only use them if you've really done your homework, are extremely organised and keep up to date on their behaviour - and are prepared to sue if required.

Phones2U - you MUST be joking; obviously not done ANY research on them!

Mobiles2yourdoor are effectively Phones4u. They mainly have a bad reputation but (again) unlikely to go bust. The jury's still out on them until I have more first hand experience, but I am prepared to sue since I always assume I may have to.

In any case, there ARE no fantastic cashback deals now, thanks to the majority of smaller dealers going bust or changing their nature, the great crusade from disgruntled people who got burned on deals without understanding the risks or (generally) accepting them which, in turn, has put pressure on the networks and got those wonderful people called politicians involved. I will still grab deals if and when they arise for myself and my friends and family, but wouldn't recommend anyone going it alone unless they have put the kind of time and research in that I have. The days of "easy pickings" and honest dealers offering 12 months free (if there ever was such) are over!

ferretktf

sorry - was meant to be Phones4U not Phones2U (!)

I've never had a problem with E2SAVE/CPW myself ... but the deals there are now £8+ per month ... not zero cost

mobilejunkie

Neither had I... until recently when they started trying to change t&c more than half-way through a contract. Can't see why anyone would buy from them if their deals are mediocre; they only got away with it recenlty because thir deals were very good. As many have recently found (including those who, like you, had no problems with them previously) they now give out FALSE cashback information as well as misleading things. They are constantly re-writing their t&c, have several sets for the same contracts and basically ignore the legal t&c as if they can do what they want. You can play their game and win but many people have no idea what they're doing and come on these threads asking for help in desperation because it's such a mess and E2Save are now so unhelpful.

Still, as you say, their 12 months deals have gone for now at least and the "x" months free usually refers to 18-month contracts. Their share price has been dipping since Christmas; can't think why!