Don't be a 2016 Remoaner - voting Brexit was our finest hour

Thrugelmir

HornetSaver wrote: »

My point is that someone who is unquestionably a key part of the Trump administration - the person the most business-centric president ever has put in charge of commerce - is pointing out the opportunites for business to be taken from the UK as a direct result of Brexit. That doesn't make him any more likely to be correct than anyone else, but he certainly can't be accused of having a liberal, Europhile agenda. He's simply saying it as he sees it, and I'm simply pointing out that it's one of several plausible reasons as to why stock prices might be rising, against the expectations of everyone including Leave voters (who would have expected any surge to come after we actually left).

As a side note, Amazon's share growth has been sustained over approximately 15 years in correlation with its sales growth, in confident anticipation of the sorts of numbers they are now posting. In approximately that timeframe there has never been a question of it being taken over. It seems a very strange comparison to make to the current state of the UK stock market (unless, after six months of the Government playing its cards very close to its chest and the EU even more so, everyone is now suddenly supremely confident in the UK's future prospects. I'd be delighted if that turns out to be the case but it seems a bit of a longshot at this stage in the process).

American business and management style has long been aggressive. Not something new. May talk the same language but most certainly a different culture.

I mentioned Amazon as it's something that was discussed when they first arrived on the UK scene. Forget sales figures as has no meaning. (Turnover is vanity, profit is sanity but cash is always king as the saying goes). Look at the profitability history. How many years it did it take to return a profit at all? Had some wealthy backers with very deep pockets to sustain it through that period. Over time their motives and business model became apparently clear.

kabayiri

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Why? The EU is built on very clear foundation principles. That won't be changed for anyone.
...

Yes, but how often have national politicians downplayed these end goals. Our politicians have done this for decades.

If the Cameron opt-out deal had worked and convinced the UK voters, then everyone would have been asking for similar.

I have not seen any particular appetite from Greeks to adopt similar financial rectitude as their German peers.

Unless people from all the EU countries buy into the principles with actual behaviour, then what do you actually have in practise?

There is absolutely no way certain EE states are going to accept that FoM means thousands of non-Christians coming in to their country, for example.

Thrugelmir

kabayiri wrote: »

If the Cameron opt-out deal had worked and convinced the UK voters, then everyone would have been asking for similar.

One day Cameron will publish his autobiography. Be revealing as to what was actually said by all the parties concerned. May well put a different complexion on matters. In particular who the main objectors were.

gfplux

StevieJ wrote: »

So when are we having that 2nd referendum? Just to be sure.

I as a Remainder I sincerely hope there will NOT be a 2nd referendum

Shaka_Zulu

HornetSaver wrote: »

Share prices do tend to rise when takeovers are anticipated, to be fair.

Can you explain what the connection is between your text and the link in the quote above?

Your text suggests that it is takeover that are causing a rise in FTSE100 whilst the link is about the global supremacy of the London market.

BobQ

lisyloo wrote: »

Surely there is no expiry date on beliefs?
........?

That was my point to Sapphire. We voted and there was an outcome. Calling those who still disagree with leaving (while not challenging the result) "undemocratic" is offensive. As you rightly say there is no time limit. Those who still identify with a wish to remain have a democratic right to advocate remaining and even rejoining.

Graham_Devon wrote: »

This whole "we must re-run referendums" has got to stop really. If we get something very tangible to have a referendum on, fine. But until that point I don't really see the point in re-runs of referendums until the answer some people want is sought.

As far as I know there have been no serious suggestions to re-run the referendum. To re-run a referendum would require someone to show that it have not been conducted legally. So what do you want to stop? In a democracy anyone is entitled to advocate another referendum. If a party winning the next election campaigned to remain or rejoin promising to hold a second referendum that would not be undemocratic. Yet people accuse the remain believers of being undemocratic.

That said, I agree that there is no point having a second referendum unless there was some significant change from the EU or the public mood.

Matt_L

BobQ wrote: »

That was my point to Sapphire. We voted and there was an outcome. Calling those who still disagree with leaving (while not challenging the result) "undemocratic" is offensive. As you rightly say there is no time limit. Those who still identify with a wish to remain have a democratic right to advocate remaining and even rejoining.



As far as I know there have been no serious suggestions to re-run the referendum. To re-run a referendum would require someone to show that it have not been conducted legally. So what do you want to stop? In a democracy anyone is entitled to advocate another referendum. If a party winning the next election campaigned to remain or rejoin promising to hold a second referendum that would not be undemocratic. Yet people accuse the remain believers of being undemocratic.

That said, I agree that there is no point having a second referendum unless there was some significant change from the EU or the public mood.

You well know the likes of Farron and Clegg would be happy calling for referendum after referendum until they got the result they wanted..

For now they're calling for a referendum on the terms, then it will be a referendum on the timetable until enough time has passed that we have forgotten what the first referendum was about so they'd call for the original to be rerun...

nubbins

lisyloo wrote: »

Is anyone trying to remain?
those who brought the court case want brexit done properly.

LOL, so thats what they really want....brexit done properly.

BobQ

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

What makes you think that there will still BE an EU by then?
Almost certainly whatever EU there is will be a different beast to that which currently exists.

I do not necessarily think it will exist in its present form as I have made clear on many occasions. Equally what makes you think that the EU might not transform into something to which you might want the UK to belong?

If you really do feel that it is time to move on (Hallelujah) then please do, and cease the diatribes yourself

.

I have moved on. If you want more of those who voted remain to move on, then it is you who needs to stop using such abusive terms

There has been a thread in these forums about those found to be most abusive - and the majority opinion was that the largest perpetrators were certain remain supporters.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5574524

I know I started it, and I agree that the majority (who were predominantly Leavers) do not see that their attitude is part of the problem. THe message they convey is Brexit means whatever we say it does and if you disagree you are one of the remonasaurs (or whatever).

If you dislike seeing suggestions for a descriptive name such as mine for a certain faction of remain supporters, I must assume that you also dislike similar names for leave supporters (one ending in "tard" in particular)?

I have said so.

Together with (as has been said) the implications that leave supporters are somehow less-intelligent/ ill-educated etc. etc.etc.

As far as I know there has been no analysis of this characteristic but clearly in any two populations it is statistically likely that one will be more or less intelligent than the other. Individuals, however vary quite a lot.

I have seen little to suggest that all positivity post-referendum is "unqualified support" for brexit as you suggest.
Indeed this positivity is most often in response to the continuation of "project fear"-type predictions of impending disaster - which btw are certainly not evident from recent predictions in economic growth for example, which are having to be continually increased.

So it really does seem that (apart from perhaps the very smallest number of posters) this "undying support" of which you speak comes in fact from those who voted to remain but are unwilling to move on

Not sure you understood my point. This was that anything less than unqualified support for a Hard Brexit is automatically a lack of commitment worthy of a "remoaner" label, and any comments about the type of Brexit is equally a failure to worship the cause, or even "undemocratic"

As I say in a post above but will put it here more bluntly so that you may clearly comprehend:
If I see obvious untruth posted I will respond with verifiable truth.

I hear and obey the Great Farage:

sashacat

I voted leave because I want the UK to leave the EU.
Simple.
I am well informed and well educated.
I know a lot of people all of whom voted leave. I know one person who voted remain. They now say they would vote leave because all the panic and fear doommongerers have been proved wrong.
Second referendum...bring it on....we will have a 60 40 majority to leave....at least.