Don't be a 2016 Remoaner - voting Brexit was our finest hour

Thrugelmir

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I, like you, feel that a second referendum would see remain win.

However, what would happen on a 3rd? It's highly likely leave would win as people see that absolutely nothing has changed, and, infact, the EU would very likely take the opporunity to place more EU dictat on us due to the vote.

Therefore, when do we stop having referendums?

Who knows. Like the result of a General Election people move on. As yet nothing has changed for the vast majority of people nor will it after Brexit.

BobQ

Sapphire wrote: »

Whether or not these undemocratic people did succeed in their aims...........................

Out of interest, how long into the future do you believe that those who still believe in the remain cause should have to wait before they are allowed to advocate that UK should be in the EU (not leave/rejoin) ?

One year? Two years? When we have finally left? Ten years? Twenty years?

lisyloo

BobQ wrote: »

Out of interest, how long into the future do you believe that those who still believe in the remain cause should have to wait before they are allowed to advocate that UK should be in the EU (not leave/rejoin) ?

One year? Two years? When we have finally left? Ten years? Twenty years?

Surely there is no expiry date on beliefs?
Even after the proof of the pudding there are likely to be different views on whether it was good bad between and even amongst members of the same industry e.g. Farmers, fishermen.
Wouldn't you agree there are likely to be winners and losers?

Considering how many aspects are involved it's almost certain that some aspects will be perceived as better and some worse isn't it?

Graham_Devon

BobQ wrote: »

Out of interest, how long into the future do you believe that those who still believe in the remain cause should have to wait before they are allowed to advocate that UK should be in the EU (not leave/rejoin) ?

One year? Two years? When we have finally left? Ten years? Twenty years?

They already did advocate that the UK should remain in the EU. That was the point of the referendum.

Those who wanted out of the EU had to wait for decades to get a chance to vote. They also had to see through many a broken promise that they would get such a chance.

This whole "we must re-run referendums" has got to stop really. If we get something very tangible to have a referendum on, fine. But until that point I don't really see the point in re-runs of referendums until the answer some people want is sought.

gfplux

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Care to substantiate this statement? Or alternatively share with us the success of all the other 27 member states in terms of increased prosperity in recent years. Living where you do. You appear not only to become detached from the UK but much of Europe as well.

Thrugelmir, surely I don't have to elaborate on the good news. You and others have been posting the good news on this thread since the referendum.
The point is, if you need it explaining, is that any good British economic news I hear is as a result of the status quo. In 27 months all the good news from then on will be as a result of Britain no longer being a member of the EU.
Just one further detail you obviously don't grasp. Many of the projections by the remain camp before the referendum were about what will happen when Britain leaves. You and I will have to wait 27 months before any of those predictions will be proven false.

gfplux

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Oh, another Remainosaur - this one living in the EU.

As such, post ammended as highlighted:

Playground name calling.
As my mother told me
"Sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never hurt you"
It was only when I grew up I realised that she was only partly wrong.
People who resort to name calling often lose the argument.

As others have said is it possible that name calling and unpleasant titles as used in the above post by Jock not be used.
What ever happened to Brexiteer and Remainder? Although the latter really does not apply now it is carved in stone that Britain is leaving the EU.
As my signature says purely for historical accuracy "I voted to remain" the referendum is history. Let's move on.

gfplux

Graham_Devon wrote: »

All the indicators in the UK have been BETTER than the equivalent indicators across the EU.

So how can you lay our performance at the door of the EU?

Hello Graham,
No where have I claimed that.
Many if not all who voted to leave the EU have been posting good British economic news as proof that Britain leaving the EU is already having a positive effect. I am pointing out that Britain is still in the EU and any good news has little to do with leaving as Britain has not left.

As many other posters have said the only FACTUAL thing we know is that the Pound is substantially lower in value against the US Dollar and the Euro against this time last year. This is wonderful for exporters.

We have the Prime Minister saying that A50 will be triggered at the end of March 2017.

All the rest is speculation by me and others and posturing by politicians on each side of the negotiating table.

Graham_Devon

gfplux wrote: »

Hello Graham,
No where have I claimed that.
Many if not all who voted to leave the EU have been posting good British economic news as proof that Britain leaving the EU is already having a positive effect. I am pointing out that Britain is still in the EU and any good news has little to do with leaving as Britain has not left.

I haven't seen anyone suggesting that, though words are open to interpretation and we will all interpret words differently depending on our initial viewpoint..

What I have seen though is people stating that the warnings of economic fallout from all sections of the media, government and large business haven't actually been an issue.

So people are using the improving economy to prove that all the dire warnings were, well, just as they said they were, fear tactics.

I haven't seen anyone suggest that the improving economy is DUE to us voting to leave (and therefore bringing more investment etc).

There are positive effects for some from voting to leave and negative from others. Overall, it's too early to tell. But one thing we can categorically state is that the dire warnings didn't come to fruition. And many were stating they never would.

Thrugelmir

gfplux wrote: »

Thrugelmir, surely I don't have to elaborate on the good news. You and others have been posting the good news on this thread since the referendum.

I haven't been posting good news as such. Very much business as usual. Record trade deficits, increasing consumer borrowing, budget deficits remain challenges to be faced. Irrespective of EU membership.

As many other posters have said the only FACTUAL thing we know is that the Pound is substantially lower in value against the US Dollar and the Euro against this time last year. This is wonderful for exporters.

The UK also imports to export. Not as straightforward as you suggest. The lower exchange rate reflects the international view of the state of the UK's finances.

HornetSaver

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Who knows. Like the result of a General Election people move on. As yet nothing has changed for the vast majority of people nor will it after Brexit.

Then why bother?

Accept the first half of your point - we are subject to the same rules, the same costs, and receive the same advantages that were in place on 22 June, and that will remain the case until the point at which we actually leave the EU.

But surely the entire selling point of Brexit is that large swathes of people were crying out for wholesale change to the way things work. That they were willing to risk the *potential* short term hit that the immediate aftermath of actually leaving might bring, on the grounds that it's worth it in the long run?

If nothing significant is going to change, then surely both campaigns were drastically wrong? The Remainers for predicting the catastrophe that would follow the end of the Article 50 process. And the Leavers for predicting a markedly better Britain as a direct result of leaving. Which leads me full circle back to my original question. Surely plenty is going to change and indeed should change after Brexit - otherwise why on earth would anyone have bothered on either side?