Will Brexit really be good for Britain?

CLAPTON

lisyloo wrote: »

Does it not make sense that if people are genuinely absolutely desperate that they seek help in the first country they come to?
If that's the case then by definition what you say will be the case.

Within the EU context we have a situation where much of the refugee 'crisis ' was created by Merkel.
In addition to the avoidable deaths en route, she has enhanced the profits of people trafficing, favoured the richer people over the poor, made it impossible to distinguish the people in most need from those best briefed to know how to 'manage' the refugee/immigration rules etc
In the wider picture of the world, why should we give priority to people who are rich enough to pay their way to europe?
So I ask what criteria should be used to determine who we should accept ? In my view ithat doesn't simply mean anyone Merkel doesn't want in Germany nor giving loads of money to France to bride them to protect children properly.

CLAPTON

CKhalvashi wrote: »

I feel that if someone is claiming their life is in danger, we should be doing everything possible to assist them, whether that's through allowing integration into our own country or supporting other countries that are overwhelmed by applications to process these.

that would be a billion or two

Sooetie

Having read through this thread this morning I have noticed a couple of things

CKhalvashi is only out for himself. (my own opinion)

I am definately still a Brexiteer.

I'm not political or an economist but think that we as a nation will do better outside the EU. Why wait for other countries to come to that conclusion first?

Clapton has a lot of sound opinions and I tend to agree with him.

Over Xmas I have chatted to 6 over 65s who voted remain - 4 of them have changed their mind!

Happy New Year

CKhalvashi

Sooetie wrote: »

CKhalvashi is only out for himself. (my own opinion)

CKhalvashi has the best part of 35 years to go until retirement, in an industry that is extremely heavily reliant on exports and worth about £80bn to the UK economy.

I am definitely not out for myself, however putting that into context a little can probably make you see a little how I come to conclusions I have and why I think the way I think.

Just to set the record straight, I don't hate the UK, and I don't think the UK is all bad, nor do I think the EU is all good, however on the balance of probability I do feel that the UK has made (and the government is continuing by promoting a hard Brexit) a stupid decision overall on this matter, taking into account a wide range of factors.

I'm open to discussion (and in fact on this matter actively encourage it) but won't tolerate personal attacks and will stand my ground in this scenario.

I am definately still a Brexiteer.

I'm not political or an economist but think that we as a nation will do better outside the EU. Why wait for other countries to come to that conclusion first?

I completely disagree on the first point, however you've probably guessed that, and would like you to reasonably explain the 2nd point in a way it can be dissected and discussed.

Over Xmas I have chatted to 6 over 65s who voted remain - 4 of them have changed their mind!

Will the impact of Brexit affect the career and business prospects of these 6 over 65s? Is potentially 20 years of a possibly stagnant economy (note the word possibly very carefully) fair on those that are in their mid-20s now, who would have left education with the recession and will potentially be 45 before having opportunities that those a few years older have now?

Yes, you may be right long term, but it's one hell of a gamble to take and one that I personally feel deeply uncomfortable with.

Happy New Year

Happy new year to you too

antrobus

Moby wrote: »

For me it is still concerning. People on this site like putting on anecdotal information about what their friends think etc and these reports are less dubious than that level of contribution. Also I think there is a tendency for people to ignore information which does not fit with their world view. It hasn't been debunked!

Non-anecdotal information

We have seen continued decreases in reports of hate crimes to forces and these reports have now returned to formerly seen levels for 2016

Police Release Hate Crime Data for June- August 2016
http://report-it.org.uk/police_release_hate_crime_data_for_june-_august

A view from abroad

Rather than a hotbed of racial hatred, then, Britain is more a country that takes hate crime seriously and encourages citizens to report such acts when they occur. Far from painting Britain as a xenophobic society, Mr. Hamilton said, the numbers point to greater intolerance among Britons directed not at foreigners, but at hateful behavior toward them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/06/world/europe/britain-hate-crimes.html?_r=0

gfplux

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

News today from Ministers in the UK Government clearly stating that there is " a real vote of confidence in Britain after our vote to leave the European Union." as said by Michael Gove.

Though I am no fan of IDS, I do quite like this statement by him:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/30/britain-has-secured-15billion-extra-foreign-investment-since/


Now as I say earlier, I do not believe for even one mad moment that all will be a bed of roses.
But the signs of doom and gloom that we were repeatedly warned would result IMMEDIATELY from a vote to Brexit just are not happening, are they?
Not yet, certainly.

Certainly the announcements by members of the Government give rise to great optimism.
The avalanche of positive news and announcements during the last few months have certainly given ME hope that Brexit will not slow Britains growth.
Perhaps I have been too negative and that International businesses, Banks and other financial institutions are not either planning to downsize in the UK or not upscale their operations in Britain.
Of course I am not yet convinced that Brexit will not be bad for Britain and Europe. I still believe my vote for staying was correct.
Six months on I am less disturbed/dissapointed or frightened. In fact I just have a continuing interest in how it plays out.
I suspect that the majority of people wherever they live have got on with their lives and hardly notice any of the good or bad news. It will probably only breach the general consciousness when "real" news is announced.
The only "real" news we know of is the result of the Supreme Court in January and the triggering of Article 50 at the end of March.
It actually is getting both boring, for lack of news, and exciting waiting for these significant moments in history.

Sooetie

As I am not a skilled poster I can't cut and post comments.

CK It was not a personal attack as I do not know you.

I think there is a far bigger opportunity outside the EU which we haven't been able to tap into.

Brexit and Trump may be a bit to much for the French but people have had enough of beauocracy at its worst!

And although you may think the over 65s have no bearing on the future of the UK - believe me - my mother and her friends feel extremely strongly about the future of their sons, daughters, grandchildren and great grandchildren !!

Thrugelmir

CKhalvashi wrote: »

however on the balance of probability I do feel that the UK has made (and the government is continuing by promoting a hard Brexit) a stupid decision overall on this matter, taking into account a wide range of factors.

For the umpteenth time there's is no set policy agenda. Negotiations haven't started yet. You are the one making pure assumptions to support your point of view.

CKhalvashi

Sooetie wrote: »

As I am not a skilled poster I can't cut and post comments.

CK It was not a personal attack as I do not know you.

No problem. I wasn't accusing you personally of anything. I have in general been given issues through my views and would rather explicitly state I'd prefer a debate over an argument.

I think there is a far bigger opportunity outside the EU which we haven't been able to tap into.

The issue I have with that statement is the question of why (and I don't know the answers to that).

Having dealt with UKEF last year, there is far more the government can and should be doing to encourage exports to other parts of the world.

My argument is that then is the time to look into leaving the common market, and not when these exports are in their infancy.

Many German companies export on a much greater scale than British companies. From what I've heard (and please note I've never been a director of a German company, so this is secondhand info) their import-export bank is efficient, works to deadline and has a fixed set of procedures for reviewing non-standard situations. This is where the British government fails miserably, however only those that deal with exports and even then only those that have had to deal with UKEF.

I wanted a simple answer to 'could you partially guarantee xyz and we could probably get a matching guarantee from a second government as a dual export' and wasn't given a straight answer. The ExIm bank in the second country have been much more efficient in getting all paperwork dealt with.

Brexit and Trump may be a bit to much for the French but people have had enough of beauocracy at its worst!

I don't think Le Pen will be elected, even after 2 victories going the other way to expected last year.

And although you may think the over 65s have no bearing on the future of the UK - believe me - my mother and her friends feel extremely strongly about the future of their sons, daughters, grandchildren and great grandchildren !!

I don't think over 65s have no bearing on the future of the UK. The point I was making was that whilst it may affect their kids, grandkids etc there is much less direct effect of the decision.

I'm not saying the opinion isn't valid, just that all opinions, remain or leave, should be looked at in the entire scheme of things and government funding should be targeted in areas of trade before we even consider leaving the single market. There are also sensitivities with the Irish border, Cyprus, Malta (forming the Commonwealth in the EU) etc that will need extremely careful planning. We also need to look into not upsetting the RoI or causing their economy to go off a cliff edge.

You may disagree with that or think I'm being too cautious/considerate, that's your right, however I have very little faith in a Conservative government to get this right whilst also feeling that May is out of her depth in trying to deal with this.

I really wouldn't want her job when everything's going well though, let alone when everything isn't.

CLAPTON

CKhalvashi wrote: »

Just to set the record straight, I don't hate the UK, and I don't think the UK is all bad, nor do I think the EU is all good, however on the balance of probability I do feel that the UK has made (and the government is continuing by promoting a hard Brexit) a stupid decision overall on this matter, taking into account a wide range of factors.

maybe you could post up the soft and concilatory views of Tusk and Juncher etc and compare and contrast with hardline May's.

and of course you don't hate the UK: you just delight it finding fault with the UK about everything and never find any faults with the EU27.