Will Brexit really be good for Britain?

A_Medium_Size_Jock

HornetSaver wrote: »

I'm not a Europhile, but a pragmatist. I believe very strongly that the EU is here to stay whether it's a moral thing or not, whether all the rules make sense or not, and whether it impinges upon our sovereignty or not.
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If however the writing is on the walls that the whole thing is about to break up, we'd be morons not to take the opportunity to leave before that actually happens.
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That does not, in and of itself demonstrate to me that the EU is going to collapse in a matter of years. Two or three significant leaders and/or governments wanting out might have changed my mind.

I'm not about to write screeds in response to your post, much of which makes at least some degree of sense.

It is your solid belief in the EU that I must find fault with.
When the likes of Junckers, Tusk and Shulz admit to the possibility of collapse does that not tell you something?
No, the writing is on the wall - and has been for some time.
Maybe not today and perhaps not even tomorrow, but the day IS coming for sure.
Too many voices suggest this to be possible, from too many great minds.
Here are just a few examples, but there are many to choose from.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/13/jean-claude-juncker-eu-is-facing-existential-crisis

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/15/risk-of-eu-break-up-is-real-tusk-warns-ahead-of-crucial-summit

http://www.euractiv.com/section/future-eu/news/schulz-eu-collapse-is-a-realistic-scenario/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/16/euro-house-of-cards-to-collapse-warns-ecb-prophet/

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-3769498/I-m-certain-European-Union-s-doomed-says-Nobel-prize-winner-advised-Bill-Clinton-chief-economist-World-Bank.html

https://hbr.org/2016/09/is-project-europe-doomed

http://www.euronews.com/2016/03/10/is-the-european-union-doomed

CLAPTON

HornetSaver wrote: »

The fundamentals of the situation were that negotiations were never going to begin seriously until late 2017. All the current kerfuffle about court challenges to this procedure and parliamentary motions to debate that procedure would have been drowned out by what the government was actually doing, had we held the vote and then immediately started Article 50. An option which was never going to be on the table because Cameron was never going to do it.

Indeed the only reason he called the referendum was because he felt it was the only way to secure his position. Had we waited until the end of 2017, as was originally believed to be the timeframe, Cameron would long since have been replaced by someone competent enough to plan for the possibility of a Leave vote.

these are basically simply tactical issues.

if the vote had been 'stay' then its unlikely that there would be another opportunity for 30-40 years.
given where we were, if leaving was an option, then the only realistic vote would be 'leave' :

cogito

CKhalvashi wrote: »

The UK is at the bottom of the table for wage growth, alongside Greece.

Utter cobblers. Don't you think you should check your facts before posting such tripe?

HornetSaver

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

When the likes of Junckers, Tusk and Shulz admit to the possibility of collapse does that not tell you something?

If they are always right we would never have dreamt of leaving. If they are always wrong why start believing them now?

I don't mean that as a sarcastic response, but they're making those comments for the same reason Remain claimed that we'd go into an economic collapse of biblical proportions and Leave claimed that the entire Arab world would soon descend on Britain, such is the desperation of the EU to welcome Turkey. Project fear.

If Europhiles - who let's not forget will be front and centre in these negotiations from the EU's side - believe that Britain has always been an odd-one-out and that the mainland Europe EU remains firm, there's no good reason not to take a pragmatic, even-handed approach to negotiations. I'd say that Juncker etc believe that the more seriously Europhiles take these warnings, the more likely the Brexit deal will be designed to dissuade others from following our steps.

To what extent their predictions of an EU catastrophe reflect either their opinion of what is to come, or reality, is anyone's guess.

Mortgagefreeman

CKhalvashi wrote: »

Look at the numbers, then stop with the racist propaganda.
.

Quite frankly you disgust me by suggesting I'm racist.i have pointed out before that I enjoy a multi race culture, many of my neighbours originating from Asian countries,who's company I really enjoy and am thankful for.

You really have shown your true colours. What a nasty person you are.

Moby

Will Brexit really be good for Britain? Not if you are an ethnic minority I fear!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/13/hate-crimes-eu-referendum-home-office-figures-confirm

The number of hate crimes leaped by 41% in the month after the vote to leave the European Union, new Home Office statistics confirm.

A daily breakdown of the hate crime offences reported to the police showed the number of incidents doubled in the days after the referendum. The level peaked at 207 incidents on 1 July, twice as many as before the vote, when the level was already unusually high.

In July, there were 5,468 hate crimes – 41% higher than July 2015. A Home Office report on the data noted that the “sharp increase” in hate crime was not replicated in equivalent offences at the time.

David Issac, chair of he Equality and Human Rights commission said the figures “make it very clear that some people used the referendum result to justify their deplorable views and promote intolerance and hatred.”

[Deleted User]

Moby wrote: »

Will Brexit really be good for Britain? Not if you are an ethnic minority I fear!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/13/hate-crimes-eu-referendum-home-office-figures-confirm

That's rather misleading.

It's the number of reported hate crimes which has increased, and, given that a hate crime is defined as something someone (not necessarily the alleged victim) believes to be a hate crime, the figures are, at best, dubious.

CLAPTON

Moby wrote: »

Will Brexit really be good for Britain? Not if you are an ethnic minority I fear!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/13/hate-crimes-eu-referendum-home-office-figures-confirm

too silly for words.

The_Last_Username

CLAPTON wrote: »

too silly for words.

Indeed so, being debunked how many times in the months since that report?

Thrugelmir

CKhalvashi wrote: »

It's completely irrational to pull out of a trading union which offers impeccable value for money and supports more than half of British exports.

EU exports more to the UK. So would suffer more. Yet places more importance to FOM than what people actually feel and want. That's not democracy.