I have a growing feeling that Britain will NOT leave the EU

Intoodeep

caronoel wrote: »

So was the promise of £350m a week for the NHS valid and fair, on a barefaced lie to keep the little Englanders happy?

Likewise was the Emergency Budget that would have had us all going to hell in a handcart promised by the remainer Gideon a barefaced lie, you must have something more important in your life to worry about ??

gfplux

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

You really do need to concentrate upon more than these forums and certain sectors of the British media.
Those of us who have seen previous posts of yours are fully aware of your love for the EU and for the disdain which you have shown in these forums for the UK.
We have seen you profess never to return here from your Luxembourg home.
Perhaps therefore you are not so well-informed of ACTUAL sentiment here within the UK.

So let me put this simply:

Following David Cameron promising a referendum AND that the result would be honoured,a democratic vote was held.
With only two questions; stay in the EU or leave the EU.
The result was a majority of those who could be bothered to vote (which incidentally was the highest turnout in a national vote for a very long time) voted to leave the EU.

Since the results were announced, certain factions have decided that they do not now like democracy and will do what they can to impede, delay or even nullify this democratic decision.

Now the problem with this is that even many of those who did not vote with the majority do at least recognise democracy.
Meaning that if Brexit is NOT forthcoming, the UK faces a very serious threat of public unrest and even possibly civil unrest.
A revolution in other words.
The only alternative being what these supporters of such anti-democratic views seem to desire; a tyranny or a dictatorship.

Now you may think that sounds far-fetched?
Consider (again) though that a majority voted for leaving the EU AND that many would prefer democracy to dictatorial regimes.
Having considered these points, do you seriously believe that there is any REAL chance that any democraticaly-chosen government anywhere would contemplate encouraging the civil unrest that is a very real risk if the wishes of the majority are not considered?

So it is my belief that Article 50 will be put forward - and by the end of March as TM has said.
Because to do otherwise does indeed pose a real and serious risk to national security for the reasons I show clearly above.

Thank you for the potted history lesson Jock.

Your final four lines are the only interesting part. We will wait and see. I HOPE you are right but I have growing doubts as outlined in my original post.

gfplux

Luke273 wrote: »

Got to love Remainers hope/wishes that they can delay/block the Brexit process with legal challenges, neverendums, etc. The fact of the matter is that there is a deadline for Brexit to be completed by May 2020.

What do you think will happen if we are not out of the EU by then? Let's not forget that Nick Clegg and the Lib Dems got absolutely slaughtered in last year's elections because of one single policy that condemned them (tuition fees). Do you honestly believe that 52% of the voting population will forget Brexit ever existed if it's not implemented by then?

By delaying/blocking Brexit, you will just give UKIP and other far right parties their rallying cry in 2020 and potentially leaving the EU under harder terms than most of us ever want. If you think it can't happen then you obviously not been paying much attention this year.

The Conservatives are not stupid, they know most of their voters are wanting to see Brexit happen and they will already have one eye on the next general election, they will make sure it will happen by then whilst doing as little damage to the economy as possible to ensure they win the majority again.

Hello Luke, I am not sure what deadline you mean in May 2020. If you mean the latest date for a UK General Election where does it say that the negotiations have to be completed by then.
I have obviously missed that. Please post a link to it. Thank you.

gfplux

Tromking wrote: »

I'm expecting an almighty Brexit fudge by British politicians and that after a second referendum the UK will not leave the EU. If Merkel and co are wise they'll cough up more concessions on the core British issues and end the threat of Brexit for a generation.
They listen to you when you vote to leave.

The mood in my ipinion in the rest of Europe is
Either
1) Don't like the EU but let's stay in
2) Don't like the EU let's leave
Most are agreed on this:-
3) NO WAY WE GIVE BRITAIN A BETTER DEAL TO STAY IN.
They already have too many extras.

CLAPTON

gfplux wrote: »

The mood in my ipinion in the rest of Europe is
Either
1) Don't like the EU but let's stay in
2) Don't like the EU let's leave
3) NO WAY WE GIVE BRITAIN A BETTER DEAL TO STAY IN.
They already have too many extras.

what extras are the UK asking for ?
many here don't want free movement of people which the europhiles believe will hurt us : so go on and hurt us by refusing to give us free people movement but keeping free trade.

gfplux

Tromking wrote: »

You ignore the fact however that the potential loss of the UK to the EU is a catastrophic failure by the political class on mainland Europe. Given the chance to redeem themselves and welcome the UK back to the fold, I`m expecting major concessions second time round or at least concessions enough to end the threat of Brexit for a generation.

You should understand that many Europeans voters were shocked that Britain voted to leave the EU as they consider that Britain already had a better deal than anyone else and there is no stomach by Politicians to add extra concessions and alienate their electorate.

gfplux

Tromking wrote: »

You ignore the fact however that the potential loss of the UK to the EU is a catastrophic failure by the political class on mainland Europe. Given the chance to redeem themselves and welcome the UK back to the fold, I`m expecting major concessions second time round or at least concessions enough to end the threat of Brexit for a generation.

You should understand that many Europeans voters were shocked that Britain voted to leave the EU as they consider that Britain already had a better deal than anyone else and there is no stomach by Politicians (in power or yet to be elected) to add extra concessions and alienate their electorate.

CLAPTON

gfplux wrote: »

You should understand that many Europeans voters were shocked that Britain voted to leave the EU as they consider that Britain already had a better deal than anyone else and there is no stomach by Politicians to add extra concessions and alienate their electorate.

why do the europeans think the UK gets a 'better' deal : don't they think that closer convergence and the Euro is better than what the UK has?

Conrad

gfplux wrote: »

You should understand that many Europeans voters were shocked that Britain voted to leave the EU as they consider that Britain already had a better deal than anyone else and there is no stomach by Politicians to add extra concessions and alienate their electorate.

Lots of non EU nations enjoy free trade with the EU, no FOM, no paying a club fee, this really is very simple, not that trade deal is needed anyway.
Watch Meryn Sometset on the QT before the last one. As she says, we will one day look back on this as a slight alteration in the way we trade.

cogito

gfplux wrote: »

You should understand that many Europeans voters were shocked that Britain voted to leave the EU as they consider that Britain already had a better deal than anyone else and there is no stomach by Politicians (in power or yet to be elected) to add extra concessions and alienate their electorate.

To me the root of the problem is that Cameron was trying to get the EU to reform itself but transparently failed. His feeble effort to persuade the electorate that he had secured a great deal was seen by voters for what it was.

I voted out for many reasons, one of which was that the EU was in need of major reform but it was clearly incapable of doing so given the religious zeal of Juncker and co who were determined to recreate the USSR in Europe.