Unwelcome attention from a male flatmate

Mojisola

I agree with duchy. Speak to the Welfare Officer.

This is a very different situation to pinkshoes workplace. I've worked in a similar environment but you go into it knowing what you're taking on. This was inappropriate behaviour in her own home. Feeling besieged in your own bedroom is not a tolerable situation.

pinkshoes

Mojisola wrote: »

I agree with duchy. Speak to the Welfare Officer.

This is a very different situation to pinkshoes workplace. I've worked in a similar environment but you go into it knowing what you're taking on. This was inappropriate behaviour in her own home. Feeling besieged in your own bedroom is not a tolerable situation.

I agree his behaviour is inappropriate, and never said it wasn't, but on a scale of inappropriateness, it's quite low. Running off to the welfare officer is all very well, but life is bound to throw trickier and more inappropriate situations at you, and out of university you don't have a welfare officer to run to!

I was friends with both welfare officers at uni (yes, different situation to work place, but i also did a 4 year uni course and have come across many over familiar people who like to push boudaries) who would probably laugh if someone came to them and told them that! Sounds harsh, but very true!

juno

pinkshoes wrote: »

I agree his behaviour is inappropriate, and never said it wasn't, but on a scale of inappropriateness, it's quite low. Running off to the welfare officer is all very well, but life is bound to throw trickier and more inappropriate situations at you, and out of university you don't have a welfare officer to run to!

I was friends with both welfare officers at uni (yes, different situation to work place, but i also did a 4 year uni course and have come across many over familiar people who like to push boudaries) who would probably laugh if someone came to them and told them that! Sounds harsh, but very true!

Outside of uni, you're not likely to be living with people you don't know, though. Even if you answer a flatshare ad from the paper you'd meet the people before moving in with them.

And anything that happens at work is just that; it isn't your home; it isn't someone knocking on your door at 4am and scaring you!

bestpud

Pinkshoes - I have to disagree with your interpretation of this!

It is very different - the two scenarios cannot be compared at all and it is NOT acceptable behavior.

This is just my take on what you have said and I accept you may well disagree. I feel you are actually being submissive by putting up with your colleagues attitudes. I really don't see it as being strong, because all you are doing is condoning their actions and essentially saying you are worth less than them! You seem to be saying women should be assertive and stand up for themselves - I don't feel you have actually done that at all to be honest!To put it another way, would you say a male working with females should feel the need to adopt female behaviours or leave the job?

I would also question whether you are 'one of the lads' because they clearly treat you differently and going back to the OP's daughter - would he have picked up a male flatmate and/or asked him if he is naughty?

You seem to justify your situation pretty well but I'm not convinced. As I said, it's my opinion based upon what you have said here.

I do not think women should be treated with kid gloves but a student should be able to sleep easily in her flat, and without having to resort to meeting like with like or accepting behaviour that makes her feel uncomfortable. It's about respect for others and this guy needs his appalling manners addressed, at the very least!

I do not believe a welfare advisor will find anything to smile or laugh about and I still believe this should be brought to their attention - if only to have it on record.

pinkshoes

I certainly don't condone the guy's behaviour in any way, and have already said that it's inappropriate, but my point is that there is far worse than this in life, so if the OPs daughter feels so distraught about this situation, then how on earth will she cope with anything worse?!?! Her dad can't shelter her forever!

Being in a male dominated environment is tough sometimes, but i have seen girls come in, be "ripped to shreds", end up crying in the toilets, then leave because they don't like the environment, even though they liked the work. I'm not going to leave I job I enjoy just because some people can't keep their dirty thoughts to themselves!! You can't change people, so they're not going to stop being rude and crude, and if I did get offended by what they say and report them, then I certainly would not be well liked. It's called thick skin! They're mostly nice people, and when not with others they behave quite differently, but the best way to survive is to become immune to it! I'm sure they just did it to test me, hoping I'd get upset and run away, but I'm made of tougher stuff than that, so I know they're just joking around now as they know they can't upset me!

Life is too short to get upset by stuff like that!

bestpud

pinkshoes wrote: »

You can't change people, so they're not going to stop being rude and crude, and if I did get offended by what they say and report them, then I certainly would not be well liked. It's called thick skin! They're mostly nice people, and when not with others they behave quite differently, but the best way to survive is to become immune to it! I'm sure they just did it to test me, hoping I'd get upset and run away, but I'm made of tougher stuff than that, so I know they're just joking around now as they know they can't upset me!

Life is too short to get upset by stuff like that!

No, you will never change people - at least not while their appalling behaviour is accepted! I would say it's called taking abuse from people who should treat you as an worthy human being as soon as you walk through the door, not just once you have proved you can take their sh1te behaviour!!! Basically that's saying women are just objects to have a laugh about!

Personally, I don't think life is too short to worry about stuff like that. And I really do hope the OP's daughter won't have to put up with worse than being treated like that - it was out of order! What do you have in mind when you say she will meet much worse?

welf_man

Okay - Students' Union Welfare Adviser here! I've read this with interest as it's the sort of discussion that comes up over and over again in my field.

Yes, it's possible that the original comment and "hug" were meant light-heartedly - but they are inappropriate nonetheless. How is this guy going to know if something is inappropriate if no-one tells him? What is going to happen if he works in this country and behaves this way? He'll stand a good chance of being disciplined for harassment!

Regarding the other point - becoming "thick-skinned" as a woman in a male environment - why should we have to? My second job is as a project manager on a building renovation and I deal with "macho" men all the time. I have had ONE incident in 6 months and I'm sure that's because I pulled the guy up immediately, politely but publicly, so the rest know I don't like it and I won't take it. Women DO NOT have to be harassed, nor do we have to let our standards of what we find acceptable slip in order to fit in.

To get back to the OP - please report it to the SU; if your daughter doesn't want anything done that's fine but if this is part of a pattern then it needs to be known. It could be there's already a file open!

Hope things have settled down and that the rest of her course goes well.

Mel.

penguin_queen

think about this pinkshoes- what happens if she doesn't complain and she or one of the other girls finds themselves alone in the house with only him ?
I'm 38 and would crap myself if it happened to me. knocking on someone's door at 4am is really scary, regardless of who you are. she's not being a sissy, she was just scared.

she's only 22, and we all know life can be harsh out there, but do you really think giving him the benefit of the doubt is worth her safety here ?

i agree with everyone else and think a complaint should be made- he'll know he's been told on, and he'll think twice about being alone with her again. You never know how many girls he's tried this on before!

andyrules

pink shoes to be honest I found your thoughts quite alarming. Making personal comments, man-handling a woman you have only just met and trying to gain access to her bedroom in the night is not 'lively and boisterous' but downright abusive. If he'd done only some of that in a workplace he would be disciplined.

Quite frankly, no-one should have to live with that fear, and how do you know what he has planned next? Or maybe he plans nothing and just acts on impulse - his own.

i spent years working in an all male environment before the days of discipline and pc. Not once - no matter who I happened to be working late and alone with - did I ever feel threatened. And that's the point here, isn't it? The young woman feels threatened - not unjustifiably.

pinkshoes

andyrules wrote: »

pink shoes to be honest I found your thoughts quite alarming. Making personal comments, man-handling a woman you have only just met and trying to gain access to her bedroom in the night is not 'lively and boisterous' but downright abusive. If he'd done only some of that in a workplace he would be disciplined.

Quite frankly, no-one should have to live with that fear, and how do you know what he has planned next? Or maybe he plans nothing and just acts on impulse - his own.

i spent years working in an all male environment before the days of discipline and pc. Not once - no matter who I happened to be working late and alone with - did I ever feel threatened. And that's the point here, isn't it? The young woman feels threatened - not unjustifiably.

If I was in the shoes of the OPs daughter, I would have told the guy that I'm not a rag doll therefore don't require squeezing or shaking thanks. I would give him the benefit of the doubt that he was just being over-familiar, and politely but in a friendly manner point out that i'm not the huggable type so he can save his hugs for people who do want them! If he did it again, THEN I would consider doing something else.

I just think people are too quick to react nowadays. Surely it's better to diffuse a situation in a friendly polite manner if you can rather than taking it to the top straight away? What if this guy genuinely thought that she wouldn't mind being hugged? If he'd lifted her skirt up or groped her boobs or something, then that IS way out of order and worthy of reporting, but for something like an over-excited hug, I'd just politely point out i wasn't the hugging type and to save his hugs for someone who did want them.

Some of the guys here honestly don't realise that their behaviour is a bit OTT! I'm not going to run off to HR just because someone burped in my face or asked me to pull their finger then farted (! - perfectly acceptable in all male company sadly!!!). Lots of them come across very few women, and haven't got a clue how to behave. I just tell them that they're being vile, they feel a bit embarrassed, and they don't do it again.

I'm a tolerant person and believe everyone deserves a 2nd chance if they make a mistake or overstep the mark slightly. If they do it again, then believe me they'll get in trouble, but in 9 years I've only ever had that happen once, and it was just some sleezy guy that wouldn't take no for an answer.

You don't just stick a child on the naughty step the second they do something wrong! You first explain what they've done wrong and give them a warning, If they do it again, THEN they get punished. Works the same with adults most the time. YOU may know that it's inappropriate to squeeze a stranger, but some people honestly don't!