Brexiters should be 'Ashamed of the harm to come"

cogito

StevieJ wrote: »

The referendum result was about leaving the EU nothing more, nothing less. The majority of our SOVEREIGN parliament want a SOFT brexit, in fact the majority of the electorate do as well.

Says who? The majority of people probably don't know the difference.

CLAPTON

Herzlos wrote: »

Without having been present at of all of the meetings, no.

Do I need one?

Let's simplify this:

If he attended, he could have made a difference.
Since he didn't attend, he didn't make a difference.

I don't mind so much that he didn't make a difference, but he didn't try. It's the same crap as someone who doesn't vote complaining about the outcome of the election, or someone who doesn't speak up when someone is asking for feedback, and then complaining.

and you know for a FACT that he made no written submissions?

Herzlos

CLAPTON wrote: »

and you know for a FACT that he made no written submissions?

Can you show me a single example of one?

Lets face it, he viewed interacting with the EU with distain, why would he make written submissions? And even if he did, without ever attending to ensure they got debated there'd be no point.

I admire your logical gymnastics to try and deflect the point, but I'm getting tired of chasing the goal posts.

CLAPTON

Herzlos wrote: »

Can you show me a single example of one?

Lets face it, he viewed interacting with the EU with distain, why would he make written submissions? And even if he did, without ever attending to ensure they got debated there'd be no point.

I admire your logical gymnastics to try and deflect the point, but I'm getting tired of chasing the goal posts.

I've made it completely clear that I don't blieve there is a snowball chance in hell of a UK vote affecting the EU fisheries policy.
You seem to agree but wish he had tried.

you are right; there is little point debating the wafer thin difference between us on any progmatic outturn

bugslet

ruggedtoast wrote: »

I would like a Brexiter to explain in what way they have been oppressed by the EU and also give an actual example of even one incidence where their actual source of employment (ie something they actually know about, not a bunch of laymen stuttering nonsense about export policies to places they couldn't find on a map) has been compromised due to the single market.

I wouldn't describe the situation in terms of being oppressed, that's your choice of words, but in terms of negative impact on employment.

In the early 90s, around 8 out of 10 trucks leaving and entering Dover were UK registered. The figure for Q3 2015 was 16.6%.

I don't know the figures for Polish trucks coming to the UK or for their operations in Europe, but from personal knowledge, I'd say the figure could be described as bu88er all in the 90s, and for the UK specifically, I'd say that would a reasonable statement for 2000. The Poles now acount for 26% of international EU road transport.

It isn't the same as off-shoring, which I have heard it likened to before. This is essentially operating in one country, ie UK, Germany, France, whilst using the wage rates and tax regime of the home country, be it Poland, Romania, Lithuania. Because of EU regulations foreign countries can now move goods within the UK for a certain amount of moves, the ultimate aim is to do away with restrictions and allow unlimited moves. That would also impact domestic UK hauliers, albeit to a lesser extent.

This isn't something only UK International hauliers whinge about, the Dutch, French and Germans certainly do. The latter two countries are trying/have tried to introduce laws which require foreign hauliers to prove that they pay the French/German NMW. It is very obviously aimed at the E European hauliers, though in the interests of fairness, it means that W European hauliers also have to faff about with a shed load of additional paperwork. It's currently being reviewed, AFAIK, by an EU court to decide if they can do that, or if an E EU firm can operate within another country's border at their own pay rate.

On a wider note, that means an estimated £300 million in lost fuel duty for the Treasury - and that's going back a couple of years. And the E EU trucks, with exceptions of course, tend to have a more fluid interpretation of drivers hours and maintenance responsibilities. I'm not saying that out of some bias either. less than a month ago, I attended a conference, at which one of the speakers was the head of the DVSA and one of the topics he covered was how the DVSA deal with foreign trucks in breach of drivers hours and roadworthiness. Some of the stories were quite frankly:eek::eek::eek:

HornetSaver

Conrad wrote: »

Nor ways fishing model is a good one, we can Learn from it.

The BOE are due to say tomorrow that they think we could well do better next year than some are suggesting. Tee hee

I agree. It might not be armaggeddon.

It might simply be a tepid start to a long, slow decline. Or the leading edge of a short, sharp recession before we begin to understand and embrace the new reality (with all the opportunities that will come with it).

I've nailed my colours to the mast about what I think this process is going to bring. I challenge you to say "2017 will be one of the best economic years we've had in a long time."

A_Medium_Size_Jock

HornetSaver wrote: »

I agree. It might not be armaggeddon.

It might simply be a tepid start to a long, slow decline. Or the leading edge of a short, sharp recession before we begin to understand and embrace the new reality (with all the opportunities that will come with it).

I've nailed my colours to the mast about what I think this process is going to bring. I challenge you to say "2017 will be one of the best economic years we've had in a long time."

Likewise I would suggest is is equally difficult to forecast that the Eurozone will have one of the best economic years - or indeed the USA.

I for one have never suggested it would be easy or pain-free.
To suggest however that the outlook is nothing other than gloomy is just as unrealistic as the suggestion that everything will improve.

Thrugelmir

HornetSaver wrote: »

I've nailed my colours to the mast about what I think this process is going to bring. I challenge you to say "2017 will be one of the best economic years we've had in a long time."

It won't. Nothing to suggest it will be. Globally there's plenty of negative economic and financial news. Something somewhere is going to spark a sizable correction.

gfplux

With oil prices on the rise together with the weak pound we may see inflation rising in 2017.
One way of strengthening the pound is for the BOE to raise interests rates. This might mean that savers will get a higher return for their savings but it will put pressure on mortgage holders.
We all have to wait and see.
We live in interesting times.

gfplux

I have heard from one unconfirmed sauce that after Brexit some of the better fishing grounds will revert to Scottish Government control. This is connected to the devolment of powers from Westminster.
Have any of the posters who have been discussing fishing issues have any knowledge of this?