Tweeting an abortion

Person_one

missbiggles1 wrote: »

Failures can of course happen but we only have the word of the people involved that the contraceptive use was perfect.

No, the manufacturers themselves give figures for the expected failure rate with perfect use. Its a small number but given how many people are using these products it does happen whatever you might want to believe. Not that its reasonable to expect humans to be perfect anyway!

I know you remember the headlines about the failed implants:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12117299

Not sure how those women could have done anything differently...

Dill

Person_one wrote: »

Yet somehow, despite being so much more vigilant and knowing the difficulties they face if they need a termination, 10 women a day still end up in the UK from Ireland in this situation. (That we know of, its reasonable to assume that many more don't give their real Irish addresses.)

Its almost as if pregnancies can happen no matter how careful you are, or as if human beings aren't perfect, or as if every pregnancy isn't a fairy story from start to finish and things never change or go wrong!

I would wager that considerably more than 10 women a day get pregnant "accidentally" over on the mainland where abortion is legal and available on demand.

No need to go on the defensive re. contraception failing. But contraception failing is rather different to not bothering to use any..which is what I meant by people being more careful in Ireland.

Person_one

Dill wrote: »

I would wager that considerably more than 10 women a day get pregnant "accidentally" over on the mainland where abortion is legal and available on demand.

No need to go on the defensive re. contraception failing. But contraception failing is rather different to not bothering to use any..which is what I meant by people being more careful in Ireland.

There were 185,824 abortions in England and Wales last year. That's about 500 a day, 10 of which are known to be for Irish women travelling over. We have a much bigger population and yes, we have better laws and generally better attitudes towards abortion so the numbers are higher.

Sane women don't 'not bother' with contraception because abortion is available. Abortion is much more of a hassle.

Dill

Person_one wrote: »

There were 185,824 abortions in England and Wales last year. That's about 500 a day, 10 of which are known to be for Irish women travelling over. We have a much bigger population and yes, we have better laws and generally better attitudes towards abortion so the numbers are higher.

Sane women don't 'not bother' with contraception because abortion is available. Abortion is much more of a hassle.

But that doesn't negate what I said about people being more careful with contraception when abortion's not an option. If anything it confirms it.

Person_one

Dill wrote: »

But that doesn't negate what I said about people being more careful with contraception when abortion's not an option. If anything it confirms it.

How does it confirm it? For that you'd need to know how many accidental pregnancies occur compared to how many fertile women live there. Do you have those stats?

I'm sorry, I just don't understand why people start with this 'abortion makes women careless' schtick. For one thing, even it were true what's the relevance? Abortion still needs to exist and you can't start restricting it based on whether you think the woman used enough forms of contraception or used them well enough! Secondly, its just not true! An abortion is a pain, literally and figuratively. You have to take time off work, its unpleasant whether its medical or surgical, there are risks, why would anyone choose it over a pill or an implant or an injection?

Dill

Person_one wrote: »

What am I twisting?

My only agenda is that abortion is a fundamental human right, that it should remain that way and that no woman should face barriers or judgement when accessing it. That includes speculation about their use of contraception.

Would you also agree that it is best avoided where possible?

If so, then that implies, does it not, that contraception should be used. (Despite the fact that in a very small number of cases it can fail.)

missbiggles1

Dill wrote: »

And I'm sorry, I just don't understand why you twist things to suit your agenda.

You've been ranting on here about abortion since 2009. You're entitled to your opinion, and others are entitled to theirs.

You might have an abortion 'in a heartbeat' (very apt phrase!) but presumably you never have, and not everybody would be so cavalier about it.

I've never had an abortion but I know several women who have and it really isn't a question of being "cavalier" about it. None of them has regretted the decision (research shows this to be true for an overwhelming percentage of women) and none of them has suffered any ill effects. It's a simple question of a problem and a solution.

Person_one

Dill wrote: »

Would you also agree that it is best avoided where possible?

If so, then that implies, does it not, that contraception should be used. (Despite the fact that in a very small number of cases it can fail.)

Why is that even brought up though? Is there anybody, anywhere in the world, advocating that contraception be skipped as you can just have an abortion? Its a constant straw man in abortion discussions.

missbiggles1

Person_one wrote: »

No, the manufacturers themselves give figures for the expected failure rate with perfect use. Its a small number but given how many people are using these products it does happen whatever you might want to believe. Not that its reasonable to expect humans to be perfect anyway!

I know you remember the headlines about the failed implants:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12117299

Not sure how those women could have done anything differently...

It's quite reasonable to expect women who want to avoid pregnancy to use their contraceptive method perfectly unless they have other issues such as learning difficulties.

Person_one

missbiggles1 wrote: »

It's perfectly reasonable to expect women who want to avoid pregnancy to use their contraceptive method perfectly unless they have other issues such as learning difficulties.

If you can find me a single human who always does things perfectly I'll concede that.