An Evening With... Jeremy Corbyn

ruggedtoast

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

How are you going to win an election then?



I was happy before Labour decided to destroy itself. I felt the situation was sensible, left of centre and right of centre politics. I don't think Corbyn's Labour would ever look like winning, but if it showed positive signs I'd be tempted to get out and campaign and volunteer to keep the nutters out.



All this leftist diatribe is just hardening any soft Conservatives like myself. - Good.

So what's the Corbynista plan for when all the money runs out after you re-nationalise everything? Service more debt? Cut services or tax people at eye-watering levels? Leave it to the Conservatives to sort out when you're kicked out?

I feel no guilt over wanting people to take responsibility for their decisions in life, more money can go to the truly needy like the old and disabled then whilst still reducing the welfare budget.

Yeah, Tory voters just can't stop caring about the needy.

Its what they're known for.

TrickyTree83

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Yeah, Tory voters just can't stop caring about the needy.

Its what they're known for.

So a church parishioner who volunteers to help the needy but votes Conservative because that party aligns with their view of how the country should be run doesn't care about the needy?

Only Labour membership voters and those who agree with you do? Right?

Moby

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Your Middle Way is the politics of despair.

Maybe you should ask yourself why you're having such trouble selling it.

Disagree totally....the early Blair years were very optimistic and progressive. Likewise I remember Harold Wilson in a similar way and from what I've read Clement Atlee was swept into power on a wave of optimism and change for the working man after six years of war. All three of those leaders saw that the way to power was through parliament, only through parliament could things be changed!

.....but Rugged I accept you see things differently and lets end the tit for tat on here...... it's not eddifying and the whole point of a forum is to discuss issues and not just to bait opponents....can we agree on that?...........so in that spirit.........Jeremy is clearly going to win on 24th.....totally accept that......but what comes next in your view? What's the plan? He will have control of the majority of Labour Party membership....but so what? How does that translate into winning power?.....and I'm not talking about aspirations, a movement of change bullcrap.....I'm talking cold hard calculation of how he will unseat the tories at Westminster? .....because that's what he has to do and from where I'm standing all he has at present is a bunch of wooly aspirations and ideals that translate into some policies that at most will attract about 20% of the electorate? How is he going to attract the next 15-16% 'middle ground' he needs to win power? Now remember he has to do this in the current not so favourable climate of boundary changes that will hit Labour more than the tories; the wipe out in Scotland; the fact that he is 67 years old and that begs the question of who will follow him to take up the movement and the biggie....he has alienated the great majority of his own parliamentary party....the very people he will be in the trenches with during the coming battles, (deselection is very limited and slow as a response to this and is a red herring).
Over to you!

ruggedtoast

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

So a church parishioner who volunteers to help the needy but votes Conservative because that party aligns with their view of how the country should be run doesn't care about the needy?

Only Labour membership voters and those who agree with you do? Right?

If church parishioners care about helping the needy they might want to stop electing Tory governments who treat the needy like subhumans with no right to dignity.

If they / you want to make themselves / yourself feel like you have done a good deed by sitting in the village hall selling victoria sponges and hand made paperweights once a month then carry on as you are.

Just a thought.

TrickyTree83

ruggedtoast wrote: »

If church parishioners care about helping the needy they might want to stop electing Tory governments who treat the needy like subhumans with no right to dignity.

If they / you want to make themselves / yourself feel like you have done a good deed by sitting in the village hall selling victoria sponges and hand made paperweights once a month then carry on as you are.

Just a thought.

Jesus, what planet are you on? :mad:

Helping your next door neighbour or someone in your community who is in need is far more efficient than voting to elect a left leaning government who just say they're going to help, and then sitting on your bum on here gloating over all the virtue signalling you've done over the past N years. I would guarantee that you would get more self fulfilment helping those in your community instead of campaigning for Corbyn.

You watch, if by some miracle Corbyn and his allies get into power donations to charity will dry up so fast once they raise the taxes they need to pull off all their promises. Or perhaps they just won't bother with the promises. Then you'll have helped nobody.

BJV

OMG I started to read the thread and thought it was a joke to begin with and gave up so sorry if someone else has already raised this point of view.

The only thing JC forgot to promise is free ice cream and chocolate, a holiday to Barbados and a shiny new car to everyone in whole country.

Honestly 2016 and we still feel that the best way to go forward is to leave it in the hands of the government. Who are not beyond abusing the system themselves, Oh no sorry forgot they do!

I was in my youth incredibly idealistic. The greater good, everyone working together to make a better world. It is still a fab idea but that is it. It is only an idea. The reality is that not all privatization was terrible. Some was necessary. Some people are nice and some are not. Some want to make a better life and some want it handed on a plate. The systems we have in place the NHS the education system, benefit system is amazing and we should be proud. The issue is not the system it is the people abusing it. Good and bad alike, private and business it is a mind set. What can I get, what can you give me. What is the least I can do. In the mean time genuine people who need help, financial or otherwise get caught in the backlash.

Safety nets, are there but we keep having to change them to allow for the horrible few who ruin it for the many.

Oh and who pays for all this?

I work hard very hard, have tried my best in everything and it has not always been easy it has been so difficult even more so after I started my own company. Some dark days I honestly thought that the only way to make sure my children could live in our house was to make sure that they had my life insurance. I now pay so much tax, income tax , tax on tax, it is incredible. I have no problem is doing so if it is going to make our country better. Shame is it is not. Shame is that handing the power back to government will mean that even more is wasted in layers of red tape and even less in grass roots.

Yeh lets have a meeting to decide how to spend our money, then a sub meeting then a meeting to arrange the meetings. Oh we can not do it is a council owned building lets do it is a hotel and waste even more money.

I am so sorry for rant but when will "we" as a whole wake up and take responsibility for our own actions our own future and not expect someone else to pick up the tab!!!

ruggedtoast

Moby wrote: »

Disagree totally....the early Blair years were very optimistic and progressive. Likewise I remember Harold Wilson in a similar way and from what I've read Clement Atlee was swept into power on a wave of optimism and change for the working man after six years of war. All three of those leaders saw that the way to power was through parliament, only through parliament could things be changed!

.....but Rugged I accept you see things differently and lets end the tit for tat on here...... it's not eddifying and the whole point of a forum is to discuss issues and not just to bait opponents....can we agree on that?...........so in that spirit.........Jeremy is clearly going to win on 24th.....totally accept that......but what comes next in your view? What's the plan? He will have control of the majority of Labour Party membership....but so what? How does that translate into winning power?.....and I'm not talking about aspirations, a movement of change bullcrap.....I'm talking cold hard calculation of how he will unseat the tories at Westminster? .....because that's what he has to do and from where I'm standing all he has at present is a bunch of wooly aspirations and ideals that translate into some policies that at most will attract about 20% of the electorate? How is he going to attract the next 15-16% 'middle ground' he needs to win power? Now remember he has to do this in the current not so favourable climate of boundary changes that will hit Labour more than the tories; the wipe out in Scotland; the fact that he is 67 years old and that begs the question of who will follow him to take up the movement and the biggie....he has alienated the great majority of his own parliamentary party....the very people he will be in the trenches with during the coming battles, (deselection is very limited and slow as a response to this and is a red herring).
Over to you!

There are plenty of policies, if any of you spent time looking for them, you would find them.

Here is one source:

http://www.jeremyforlabour.com/economy

I disagree that JC has alienated the PLP. The PLP has alienated itself from the membership. There are a great many career politicians who like being Labour MPs because being a Labour MP gives them an income and a particular identity that they assume is bestowed upon them automatically.

Nevertheless they are not especially interested in identifying with the poor or the voiceless and would rather the unions went away.

They don't like the new membership because as well as asking awkward questions about their values its brought in enough income that, along with the union subs, there is little excuse for pampered Blairite politicos to cosy up with big business and agree to promote neoliberal policy in exchange for Party donations. And eventual lucrative directorships.

The Labour movement was established with no Parliamentary influence at all, when the Whigs and the Tories were the only parties British (men) had to vote for.

Post Blair we have essentially gone backwards to having the Whigs and the Tories.

I think its a shame that it appears that over a century on the Labour movement needs to be recreated but if thats how it is then thats how it is. It might be a bit easier this time because at least the membership is in place.

I really see no point whatsoever in most of the PLP as it stands. Much of it would be quite at home in the Conservative Party, abstaining on welfare bills, voting for illegal wars, doubling the national debt to a trillion quid to shovel into the pockets of bankers, and spending billions on stupid ineffective nuclear weapons systems while the working poor and their children line up at food banks.

They stand for absolutely nothing, have lost two national elections in a row, have lost Scotland and are now so terrified of the Tory press its impossible to see how they could ever give Labour an identity of its own again.

Good riddance.

seven-day-weekend

ruggedtoast wrote: »

If church parishioners care about helping the needy they might want to stop electing Tory governments who treat the needy like subhumans with no right to dignity.

If they / you want to make themselves / yourself feel like you have done a good deed by sitting in the village hall selling victoria sponges and hand made paperweights once a month then carry on as you are.

Just a thought.

How much more patronising can you get?

I help to run a Job Club for the unemployed, or those wishing to change jobs, in our city. It is run by members of my church and overseen by CAP (Christians Against Poverty). It is open to anyone, of any religious affiliation or none. Every one of the workers, including the manager, is a volunteer (he comes in on his day off), and one works full-time (her boss allows her to have Thursday mornings off to do the work and make it up throughout the week).

Despite being a voluntary endeavour, we have all had to have a proper interview from CAP and undertake three days of residential training. We vary in age from early 30s to late 60s and are of both genders.

Our job club is very successful, with many people (currently about 40%), finding suitable employment or training. Some are volunteering whilst they prepare for work. People come to us via many channels, some are church members, others come because they picked up a leaflet in the FoodBank, some heard of us by word of mouth, some are referred from the Jobcentre. People also make lasting friendships as well as preparing for work. We also provide for no charge a light breakfast for those who wish it.

So don't you tell me I'm selling Victoria sponges once a month to make myself feel better (and even if I was, if it helps someone it is still a good thing, surely?).

I am a Tory voter. I don't have a clue which way the other coaches and helpers vote because it is irrelevant.

Would you like to tell me if you do anything to help the poor?

TrickyTree83

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

How much more patronising can you get?

I help to run a Job Club for the unemployed, or those wishing to change jobs, in our city. It is run by members of my church and overseen by CAP (Christians Against Poverty). It is open to anyone, of any religious affiliation or none. Every one of the workers, including the manager, is a volunteer (he comes in on his day off), and one works full-time (her boss allows her to have Thursday mornings off to do the work and make it up throughout the week).

Despite being a voluntary endeavour, we have all had to have a proper interview from CAP and undertake three days of residential training. We vary in age from early 30s to late 60s and are of both genders.

Our job club is very successful, with many people (currently about 40%), finding suitable employment or training. Some are volunteering whilst they prepare for work. People come to us via many channels, some are church members, others come because they picked up a leaflet in the FoodBank, some heard of us by word of mouth, some are referred from the Jobcentre. People also make lasting friendships as well as preparing for work. We also provide a light breakfast for those who wish it.

So don't you tell me I'm selling Victoria sponges once a month to make myself feel better (and even if I was, if it helps someone it is still a good thing, surely?).

I am a Tory voter. I don't have a clue which way the other coaches and helpers vote because it is irrelevant.

Would you like to tell me if you do anything to help the poor?

Thank you.

Not only for what you do but for posting this. Hopefully he'll have a good look in the mirror whilst listening to some Michael Jackson, if you catch my drift.

Fella

Serious question for Ruggedtoast. What do you actually contribute to society? I have no idea what, if any, job you do etc but you seem to spend every minute of every day on here spitting bile about boomers, Tories, home-owners, anyone with a pension, & latterly (quite amusingly) anyone in the Labour party who isn't a communist. So since your so lavish in your criticism of almost everyone else what do you actually do to make the world a better place for others?