An Evening With... Jeremy Corbyn

bobbymotors

interesting comment from JC in the opening post

You cannot cut your way to prosperity

Actually it's one of the few ways you can prosper...taken back to it's roots, buy a cheaper car, buy things only when you need them rather than want them (UNTIL you are prosperous and have the funds..) switch energy suppliers, etc etc and you will soon have money in your pocket to spend on luxuries.

bobbymotors

Wednesday2000 wrote: »

Why in the world do some elements of the Labour party suddenly think we want to be dragged back to the 1970s, it's 2016! I've voted Labour mostly and I would say I'm more centre left in my views. I quite liked Tony Blair as I thought his government did some good for the country. I think the way he has been demonised by some of the new Labour supporters is quite ridiculous.

I am just in despair at the situation at the moment and actually considering voting Conservative for the first time if we have a GE anytime soon.

Blair was the right man at the right time. Thatcher was the right woman at the right time.

JC is the right man if it was still 1966. As it is he has no chance, which is why I'm offering 9/2 for charity against his ever being PM. No takers so far.

the important questions can't be answered, most of the electorate are not stupid, they know the books have to be balanced at some point.

Thrugelmir

Let's see what comes out of the party conference. Interesting times.

Fella

ruggedtoast wrote: »

No, no one much.

Only the relentless propaganda arm of the Tory owned mainstream media, Liz Kendall, Yvette Cooper, Andy Burnham, the entire PLP, his own cabinet, the NEC, Angela Eagle, his own Deputy, Tom Watson and Owen Smith.

All seen off.

Liz Kendall, Yvette Cooper, Andy Burnham. And Angela Eagle, Tom Watson and Owen Smith? Is this actually your idea of political heavyweights?

Nobody had heard of the last 3 this time last year. And the first 3 have nothing of consequence between them and never did.

Even allowing that we're talking about the limited talent pool that is the Labour Party, you've just named 6 political nonentities. If you've ever been impressed by a single one of them in an interview then you're easily impressed.

bobbymotors

That's the thing with the left though isn't it? When it all goes wrong, as it invariably does, it's never their fault, it's always the meeeedia, propaganda against them, America, conspiracies by right wing extremists, etc.

Socialism does not work, it never has and never will. Because people and the world are not made that way.

westernpromise

Fella wrote: »

Well no since Kinnock was to the left & also hopeless. The analogy with that would have been if Watson had won yesterday.

Umunna is an infinitely more formidable contender than Kinnock ever was. The only question mark over him is why did he withdraw from the race last year.

Umunna is a snide, oily creep. Bring him on.

westernpromise

Fella wrote: »

The Centrists are playing a dangerous & fairly cowardly game of wanting Corbyn to be the guy who takes the fall at the next election.

They have nobody. They are all feeble third-rate quota mediocrities.

[Deleted User]

bobbymotors wrote: »

interesting comment from JC in the opening post

You cannot cut your way to prosperity

Actually it's one of the few ways you can prosper...taken back to it's roots, buy a cheaper car, buy things only when you need them rather than want them (UNTIL you are prosperous and have the funds..) switch energy suppliers, etc etc and you will soon have money in your pocket to spend on luxuries.

Yes indeed, much of the ethos of this site is that in the early days of sorting out finances, cuts are exactly what you do ...... cheaper loans, phone contracts, remortgages, cheaper shopping, etc, which can be seen by some as a reduction in lifestyle (Lidl v M&S), but are really necessary to have sensible budgeting. You could say that "The Money Diet" is effectively a "cutter's handbook". :money:

I see that Rugged has adopted another tactic used by those who CAN'T answer questions - to claim the he has answered them elsewhere in an attempt to stifle debate. Not even a nice try, Rugged!

I understand that Kezia Dugdale will be speaking at the Party Conference today (which, given the leadership result, will be a bit like a Man City fan addressing the AGM of the Man United Supporters Association). Seems she is to state that Scottish Labour is to press for a 50% top rate of tax and a penny on the basic rate. This will, of course, have two immediate consequences - no doubt cheering from the comrades in the hall, and a further reduction in support for Scottish Labour from its already pitiful levels - you do know, Rugged old chap, that Scottish Labour have fewer seats in the Scottish Parliament than the Conservatives, don't you? It doesn't seem as if Labour will be able to count on 30+ MPs from Scotland to help the Dear Leader in the 2020 (or whenever) campaign, does it?

Still, I'm sure everything will be fine (:rotfl:) - I understand that Labour will be "interventionist" in the economy once it wins power:D. John McDonnell is to say -

"Our government will create an entrepreneurial state that works with the wealth creators, the workers and the entrepreneurs to create the products and the markets that will secure our long-term prosperity,"

BBC article - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37468209

Work with "the wealth creators, the workers and the entrepreneurs"? Work "with" them? I bet they can't wait for the benefit of such expertise and encouragement :rotfl: . Sounds suspiciously like a step towards a centrally planned economy, does it not? The government is to "help" create products and markets? More meaningless drivel, no doubt impressive to the easily impressed. People routinely complain about how ineffective and inefficient local councils are at running services, but some want more, direct, government intervention in industry? It would be funny if it wasn't so serious.

Come on Rugged, try again, maybe name a couple of democracies with planned/socialist economies that are surging ahead? I'm sure that the "the wealth creators, the workers and the entrepreneurs" would like to know what awaits them, based on support from all these respected entrepreneurs and wealth creators that must be so numerous in Momentum!

WR

westernpromise

Labour is now consistently polling so appallingly that it's clear they will go backwards at the 2020 GE. Their vote distribution is both their saviour and their big problem here. Essentially, their seats are largely of rotten boroughs, in which everyone votes Labour all the time because of all the benefits and client-state patronage.

A good example of this is Rotherham. This is a Labour seat where a Labour MP, a Labour council, Labour-managed social services and Labour police commissioner all joined forces to protect and shelter for years an Asian kiddy-fiddling ring, and to smear and malign its thousands of victims . Despite the publicity, criminal convictions and a damning public inquiry, none of any of this bothered Labour's client state voters, so in 2015, Labour kept the seat.

This in turn accounts for much of the non-voting in GEs. A lot of people who don't vote live in a safe seat, which is why they don't bother. Rotherham turnout, for example, was only 59% or so. It is a Corbynite myth that the non-voters are all Corbynites. They're not; they just live in safe seats, whether Tory or Labour, and so there's no point in their voting.

They can therefore lose a lot of national vote share without losing that many of their rotten borough seats. But neither can they win many. The hard left enthused by Comrade Khorbiyn are all in the wrong places, and will simply pile up votes in seats Labour already holds while repelling many times their number in seats Labour only just holds. About 150 to 160 seats seems a likely tally next time.

This means that for the 2025 election Labour has to come from 160 seats to 300 to win. If you look at election history, instances of one majority government losing and being replaced by another majority government are pretty much nonexistent. Thatcher won a majority against a minority Labour government in 1979, Blair won a majority against a minority Conservative government in 1997. Cameron won only a minority against a majority Labour government in 2010 and neither did anyone really expect him to do better. That took a second election. May will forge further ahead still in 2020 leaving Corbyn's successor an impossible task in 2025.

The Tories are still in the upswing phase. They will be in power until 2030 at least, more probably 2035. This prospect is absolutely glorious and means there can be root and branch reform of everything without concern for short-term consequences. It also means that Labour is going to have to spend the next 19 years catching up with the modern world. The sex, race and class huckstering is going to have to stop, the pointing at things and taxing them is going to have to stop, the hatred of everyone in and everything about this country is going to have to stop, the anti-Semitism is going to have to stop, and they're going to have to show - GOK how - that they can be trusted with other people's money.

All big, big asks of a currently greedy, envious, entitled, spiteful rabble of brick-throwing hate-merchants.

bobbymotors

westernpromise wrote: »

Labour is now consistently polling so appallingly that it's clear they will go backwards at the 2020 GE. Their vote distribution is both their saviour and their big problem here. Essentially, their seats are largely of rotten boroughs, in which everyone votes Labour all the time because of all the benefits and client-state patronage.

A good example of this is Rotherham. This is a Labour seat where a Labour MP, a Labour council, Labour-managed social services and Labour police commissioner all joined forces to protect and shelter for years an Asian kiddy-fiddling ring, and to smear and malign its thousands of victims . Despite the publicity, criminal convictions and a damning public inquiry, none of any of this bothered Labour's client state voters, so in 2015, Labour kept the seat.

This in turn accounts for much of the non-voting in GEs. A lot of people who don't vote live in a safe seat, which is why they don't bother. Rotherham turnout, for example, was only 59% or so. It is a Corbynite myth that the non-voters are all Corbynites. They're not; they just live in safe seats, whether Tory or Labour, and so there's no point in their voting.

They can therefore lose a lot of national vote share without losing that many of their rotten borough seats. But neither can they win many. The hard left enthused by Comrade Khorbiyn are all in the wrong places, and will simply pile up votes in seats Labour already holds while repelling many times their number in seats Labour only just holds. About 150 to 160 seats seems a likely tally next time.

This means that for the 2025 election Labour has to come from 160 seats to 300 to win. If you look at election history, instances of one majority government losing and being replaced by another majority government are pretty much nonexistent. Thatcher won a majority against a minority Labour government in 1979, Blair won a majority against a minority Conservative government in 1997. Cameron won only a minority against a majority Labour government in 2010 and neither did anyone really expect him to do better. That took a second election. May will forge further ahead still in 2020 leaving Corbyn's successor an impossible task in 2025.

The Tories are still in the upswing phase. They will be in power until 2030 at least, more probably 2035. This prospect is absolutely glorious and means there can be root and branch reform of everything without concern for short-term consequences. It also means that Labour is going to have to spend the next 19 years catching up with the modern world. The sex, race and class huckstering is going to have to stop, the pointing at things and taxing them is going to have to stop, the hatred of everyone in and everything about this country is going to have to stop, the anti-Semitism is going to have to stop, and they're going to have to show - GOK how - that they can be trusted with other people's money.

All big, big asks of a currently greedy, envious, entitled, spiteful rabble of brick-throwing hate-merchants.

Couldn't have put it better myself, extremely insightful. Yes their core will never desert them, but as you say they are in safe labour seats already...lets face it the tories will never win Liverpool, Slough or tower hamlets will they?