A Brexiters view

Sapphire

ukcarper wrote: »

So why aren't they getting on with it then

Give them a chance – it has only been a few days since the vote for taking back our democracy and keeping our sovereignty!

In the meantime, I give you this to ponder:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683739/EU-referendum-German-French-European-superstate-Brexit

I know this is from the Express, but it has also been discussed in other sources. Do you really want this to happen to Britain. I find it absolutely horrifying – it's one of the key reasons I voted to leave, since there were murmurings about it before the referendum.

Rinoa

wotsthat wrote: »

I live in the midlands and didn't get to vote for London Mayor, anyone in the Welsh Assembly or any senior civil servants.

What laws have they made affecting people living in the midlands?

mayonnaise

StevieJ wrote: »

I thought the EU parliament voted on and authorised all legislation in the EU. The EU parliament is voted for by citizens of the EU. How are they not democratically elected?

I think the UK should elect all 751 EU parliamentarians for it to be considered 'democratic' for the EU-phobes on here.:)

wotsthat

Rinoa wrote: »

What laws have they made affecting people living in the midlands?

Do you think we won't continue to be profoundly affected by laws made in the EU? I'm probably impacted by laws made in many places where I don't get a say.

It seems strange people keep talking about Merkel as if she's in charge of the EU when Germany doesn't have many more MEP's than France or the UK.

We do send quite a few UKIP MEP's and have spent most of the last 40 years sulking rather than engaging - maybe that might have affected our perceived lack of influence.

Scarpacci

wotsthat wrote: »

It seems strange people keep talking about Merkel as if she's in charge of the EU when Germany doesn't have many more MEP's than France or the UK.

Who invited a million desperate people to make a dangerous journey across Europe, violating numerous country's borders against their wishes? Merkel. Who played the leading role is thrusting harmful austerity on the Greek people? Merkel.

You can see in the response from Europe in the days after Brexit. Angela Merkel is the de facto leader of Europe. It doesn't necessarily follow that there needs to be some clear bias within the European Union structures for Germany to be more dominant than everyone else. It can happen above and beyond the EU's parliament.

gfplux

Scarpacci wrote: »

Who invited a million desperate people to make a dangerous journey across Europe, violating numerous country's borders against their wishes? Merkel. Who played the leading role is thrusting harmful austerity on the Greek people? Merkel.

You can see in the response from Europe in the days after Brexit. Angela Merkel is the de facto leader of Europe. It doesn't necessarily follow that there needs to be some clear bias within the European Union structures for Germany to be more dominant than everyone else. It can happen above and beyond the EU's parliament.

I don't agree with your spin on the facts but it gives me the opportunity to point out that Britain and its leaders have for over 40 years been half hearted members of the EU,
What was a golden opportunity to mould, shape and lead the EU was wasted.
Into that space has stepped at various time the German Chancelor and the French President which you complain about.
As reluctant members of the EU our financial contribution may be missed but not our intellectual contribution.

ukcarper

Sapphire wrote: »

Give them a chance – it has only been a few days since the vote for taking back our democracy and keeping our sovereignty!

In the meantime, I give you this to ponder:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683739/EU-referendum-German-French-European-superstate-Brexit

I know this is from the Express, but it has also been discussed in other sources. Do you really want this to happen to Britain. I find it absolutely horrifying – it's one of the key reasons I voted to leave, since there were murmurings about it before the referendum.

They have been telling us they are going to win and now they have that can't agree on what they want it will be at least 4 months before we activate section 50 probably more months of uncertainly.

wotsthat

Scarpacci wrote: »

Who invited a million desperate people to make a dangerous journey across Europe, violating numerous country's borders against their wishes? Merkel. Who played the leading role is thrusting harmful austerity on the Greek people? Merkel.

You can see in the response from Europe in the days after Brexit. Angela Merkel is the de facto leader of Europe. It doesn't necessarily follow that there needs to be some clear bias within the European Union structures for Germany to be more dominant than everyone else. It can happen above and beyond the EU's parliament.

Germany engages fully with Europe, effectively lobbies her European partners and her influence increases - go figure.

Only in the UK would we complain about this after spending 40 years sulking on the sidelines and then sending wrecking-ball MEP's.

Now Germany really is the dominant player in the EU. It's as if you don't like this idea but still voted for it.

CLAPTON

gfplux wrote: »

I don't agree with your spin on the facts but it gives me the opportunity to point out that Britain and its leaders have for over 40 years been half hearted members of the EU,
What was a golden opportunity to mould, shape and lead the EU was wasted.
Into that space has stepped at various time the German Chancelor and the French President which you complain about.
As reluctant members of the EU our financial contribution may be missed but not our intellectual contribution.

You could give credit for our objections to forming the euro even if they were ignored
You could give credit for our support for greater labour flexibility even if we were ignored
You could give credit for our continued support for more flexible regulations even if we were only sometimes successful
You could give credit for our continuous support for Turkey to join the EU even if unsucessful.

Scarpacci

gfplux wrote: »

I don't agree with your spin on the facts but it gives me the opportunity to point out that Britain and its leaders have for over 40 years been half hearted members of the EU,
What was a golden opportunity to mould, shape and lead the EU was wasted.
Into that space has stepped at various time the German Chancelor and the French President which you complain about.
As reluctant members of the EU our financial contribution may be missed but not our intellectual contribution.

I wouldn't disagree that we've had one foot out the door from the very beginning. I think walking out the door was always a question of when, not if. If the European economies had been stronger, I think it would even have been possible that continental Europe, fed up of Britain putting the kibosh on further European integration, might have seen fit to try push Britain out to some sort of associate member. There was a reluctant acceptance of a two-speed Europe, but was it ever a permanent solution?

I don't think we ever did have a chance to shape Europe if we committed, precisely because the British inclination was not for "closer and closer" union. We would have had to acquiesce to the continental attitude towards integration, and that would have meant Britain being influenced by Europe, not Britain influencing Europe. The only influence we had was to stand directly against what the Germans and French sought, which isn't ideal for either party.

We won't be missed for leading in Europe. There may be a few of the free market, free trade countries who might miss Britain's occasional input when France or Germany tried to push through a policy they thought was a step too far. On the whole you're probably right, that Brussels isn't going to be much diminished by a lack of British voices.