A Brexiters view

dktreesea

Jonbvn wrote: »

We live in a democracy. Sometimes you have to accept things that you may not like or agree with. Remember that Gruaniad readers don't get more than one vote each.

As a supporter of democracy, I support your right to peacefully demonstrate that you disagree with the majority view.

Nevertheless, I do believe that the majority view should be implemented. That's democracy. Instead we now have some MPs (Frank Field, for example) saying that they should delay triggering Article 50 of the Lisbon treaty, possibly indefinitely, and calling on the Government to have a second referendum.


So is our democracy one where if we vote the way the toffs want it's okay, but if we go against them, the wishes of the majority should be ignored? Frank Field has gone as far as to say a majority of MPs want to stay in the EU so therefore we should ignore the referendum result.


Oh yes and we even have Nicola Sturgeon saying she plans to veto the decision for the UK to leave the EU. How arrogant is that ?! So much for the English and Welsh vote.

StevieJ

dktreesea wrote: »

Nevertheless, I do believe that the majority view should be implemented. That's democracy. Instead we now have some MPs (Frank Field, for example) saying that they should delay triggering Article 50 of the Lisbon treaty, possibly indefinitely, and calling on the Government to have a second referendum.


So is our democracy one where if we vote the way the toffs want it's okay, but if we go against them, the wishes of the majority should be ignored? Frank Field has gone as far as to say a majority of MPs want to stay in the EU so therefore we should ignore the referendum result.


Oh yes and we even have Nicola Sturgeon saying she plans to veto the decision for the UK to leave the EU. How arrogant is that ?! So much for the English and Welsh vote.

Am I missing something here? Frank Field campaigned for out?

Sapphire

Apparently the EU will be discussing (as predicted) even closer integration between the countries that are in the EU, to implement a common taxation system and other measures designed to trap the EU countries and ensure that they will not be able to vote to leave in future. The arrogance of these unelected bureaucrats is absolutely staggering. I wonder how the populations of other EU countries will react to such measures?

I posted somewhere else on this forum that a friend of mine (female) has a best friend (male) who lives in Germany (his mother owns blocks of flats there inherited from his father). Before the vote he emailed/phoned her every day to beg her to vote to Leave, saying that the EU is a cesspit of corruption and providing evidence that was really shocking.

I think we will not regret that our population voted to leave the EU, which appears to be run by petty dictators. It just demonstrates that if people are not democratically voted in, with the ability of the population to remove them, they think they have the power to do anything – this is how dictatorships come into being. This is horrifying to someone like me, who believes passionately in democracy…

Sapphire

Rinoa wrote: »

You love pigeonholing people Rugged. Attributing traits to how they dress, whether they wave a flag, how old they are.

Isn't that what racists do?

Indeed. The people I know who voted to leave are certainly not stupid (they all have good degrees – sometimes more than one – and are very successful in what they do), politically extremely well informed and well travelled, and they thought very deeply about the way they decided to vote. They are forward-looking, innovative people, and they cast their vote based on a number of different issues, democracy and the right to self-determination probably being the key issue for them.

Moving forward, the decision made by voters will be great for Britain, especially given that the EU is a failing project run by arrogant, narrow-minded petty dictators who still refuse to acknowledge this. Never mind – the people of European nations will act when they have decided that they've had enough. There were already signs of this before our referendum.

StevieJ

A blot on the the landscape in British political history, when the leader of the Tory party has played 'fast and loose' with the electorate for pure Political gain i.e heading off losing a few votes for to UKIP. I have no doubt if the referendum was replayed tomorrow it would result in a resounding remain victory after the exit supporters have been backtracking on their implied promises over the past few days, epecially on the issue of immigration.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZPLRLeDXxo

vivatifosi

dktreesea wrote: »

Nevertheless, I do believe that the majority view should be implemented. That's democracy. Instead we now have some MPs (Frank Field, for example) saying that they should delay triggering Article 50 of the Lisbon treaty, possibly indefinitely, and calling on the Government to have a second referendum.


.

A delay in triggering Article 50 was the objective of the leave camp. It was Cameron from the remain camp who said he would trigger it the following day and that was more as a threat to leave.

Not triggering is a card that is arguably in the UK's favour.

Look back through the pre referendum press... this was referred to a few times.

StevieJ

Boris, in cloud cuckoo land

"It is clear now that Project Fear is over, there is not going to be an emergency budget, people's pensions are safe, the pound is stable, the markets are stable, I think that's all very good," he told reporters as he left his London home.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/27/eu-referendum-labour-crisis-jeremy-corbyn-vows-to-fight-on-after/

JACKBLACK

dktreesea wrote: »

Well, I voted remain. No other sensible choice in Scotland. The EU is great for Scotland. But I am completely proud of the English and the Welsh, who for one rare moment have had some common sense and gone against the usual Scotland/London consensus.


The EU, and freedom of movement in particular, has been a disaster for white working class Brits. An absolute disaster. Zero hour contracts, wages being forced down left right and centre, demand for housing so high, due to those migrants that half of working class Britain, especially in England, can't even afford to buy a house. I'm SO glad, finally, the English have grown a set of b*lls and stood up to the Establishment.


As to no free trade agreement with the EU, the EU will have to pull their heads in sharpish. What will happen to the German car industry, who export 20% of their output to the UK, if the UK slap 20% customs duty on imports of their cars into the UK?


The EU as a whole sells more to us (£290 billion as per UK data, higher if looking at EU generated data) than we export to them (£220 billion). We run a huge trade deficit with Germany, upwards of £25 billion (source https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/) a year.


The UK will be alright. Our exports to the rest of the world have been growing, and to the EU declining, for years. If the EU screw us on a trade deal that will be there loss far more than ours.

You should write all that in an email to Nicola and Alex.

StevieJ

Sapphire wrote: »

I think we will not regret that our population voted to leave the EU, which appears to be run by petty dictators. It just demonstrates that if people are not democratically voted in, with the ability of the population to remove them, they think they have the power to do anything – this is how dictatorships come into being. This is horrifying to someone like me, who believes passionately in democracy…

I thought the EU parliament voted on and authorised all legislation in the EU. The EU parliament is voted for by citizens of the EU. How are they not democratically elected?

hildosaver

StevieJ wrote: »

Boris, in cloud cuckoo land

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/27/eu-referendum-labour-crisis-jeremy-corbyn-vows-to-fight-on-after/

'The pound is stable' - not looking that way at the moment.