The EU: IN or OUT?

Ballard

uk1 wrote: »

I know that you post things you've read, but have you noticed a move to get rid of Junckers in the last few days led by Merckel. ?

Do you not see that as being a sign that a "softening is on the cards"?

Jeff

I'm not sure what you mean by 'post things that you've read'. Of course I've either read or listened to the subject before I've posted. That's how I decided which way to vote.

Merkel has been quoted as saying that free movement is central to the EU so I don't detect any signs of her softening just yet. It could be largely bravado, we just don't know at this stage, but nothing that I've read suggests that they will let that clause go easily.

nicknameless

BananaRepublic wrote: »

What I saw of the campaign did not look like that at all. Many did try and portray the leave campaign in such terms, and doubtless some leave extremists did come out with that guff. To me it looked as if the remain campaign was continually portraying the leavers in such terms. A friend sent me an email, and she voted stay. She took in the remain claims without question and is clearly shocked at the 'turmoil' she sees. I just the more extreme people would calm down, but no, we get this guff about the vote being unfar, and Alastair Campbell saying it should be annulled due to dishonesty by leavers.

The irony of Campbell calling others dishonest is surely something to think about.

'Spin' versus outright lying and scaremongering? Remain 'span' and exaggerated claims and predictions they could not substantiate, and made a few threats along the way. Poorly judged a lot of it, but essentially they didn't have a really good blue touch paper to light. Leave blatantly and clearly lied about a number of things to pander to a very specific audience. They saw the blue touch paper/s they required, doused it/them with petrol, and lobbed in an incendiary device. Neither do I condone, and a Campbell apologist I am not, but the abiding narrative of the leave campaign was jingoistic, divisive and at times the lowest of the low.

There are some very clearly reasoned and articulated leave positions in this thread. Perfectly laudable and whether you agree or not they have to be given respect. It was not those positions that won the day though.

uk1

Ballard wrote: »

I'm not sure what you mean by 'post things that you've read'. Of course I've either read or listened to the subject before I've posted. That's how I decided which way to vote.

Merkel has been quoted as saying that free movement is central to the EU so I don't detect any signs of her softening just yet. It could be largely bravado, we just don't know at this stage, but nothing that I've read suggests that they will let that clause go easily.

So what is the significance of the move to try and replace Junckers do you believe?

Jeff

uk1

nicknameless wrote: »

'Spin' versus outright lying and scaremongering? Remain 'span' and exaggerated claims and predictions they could not substantiate, and made a few threats along the way. Poorly judged a lot of it, but essentially they didn't have a really good blue touch paper to light. Leave blatantly and clearly lied about a number of things to pander to a very specific audience. They saw the blue touch paper/s they required, doused it/them with petrol, and lobbed in an incendiary device. Neither do I condone, and a Campbell apologist I am not, but the abiding narrative of the leave campaign was jingoistic, divisive and at times the lowest of the low.

There are some very clearly reasoned and articulated leave positions in this thread. Perfectly laudable and whether you agree or not they have to be given respect. It was not those positions that won the day though.

Whereas most sensible people understood the flavour of the jingoistic £350m issue, by far the worst two lies from both sides was that immigration could be controlled if we remained in, and that we could make changes from within.

Jeff

nicknameless

uk1 wrote: »

Whereas most sensible people understood the flavour of the jingoistic £350m issue, by far the worst two lies from both sides was that immigration could be controlled if we remained in, and that we could make changes from within.

Jeff

As my niece and nephew would say - LOL

ManofLeisure_2

cloud_dog wrote: »

Brexit: George Osborne pledges to cut corporation tax

Of course he does. Our country been sold off to international business, banks and financiers and he is desperately trying to appease them with a 15% corporation tax ( for those who pay any ) which will tighten yet further the austerity screw.

uk1

nicknameless wrote: »

As my niece and nephew would say - LOL

It is bad enough being someone who voted to exit because you feel it was all too "undemocratic"!

Can you imagine what it must feel like if you were any one ... or even all of them together .... of the 28 heads of state and you cannot even fire the President of The EU commission if you want?

Evidently the only way he can go is if he resigns. I wish I had had some jobs like that.


Jeff

nicknameless

uk1 wrote: »

It is bad enough being someone who voted to exit because you feel it was all too "undemocratic"!

Can you imagine what it must feel like if you were any one ... or even all of them together .... of the 28 heads of state and you cannot even fire the President of The EU commission if you want?

Evidently the only way he can go is if he resigns. I wish I had had some jobs like that.


Jeff

Eh Jeff? Are you ticking the wrong box .............. I mean quoting the wrong post?

I believe this one is ROFL - :rotfl:

Though they've educated me in these ways they were too young to vote alas.

uk1

nicknameless wrote: »

Eh Jeff? Are you ticking the wrong box .............. I mean quoting the wrong post?

I believe this one is ROFL - :rotfl:

Though they've educated me in these ways they were too young to vote alas.

I'm not prejudiced.

Jeff

nicknameless

uk1 wrote: »

I'm not prejudiced.

Jeff

Again I am confused. I never called you prejudiced and I'm not sure anyone else here did from what I've read. I don't know you to make that judgement. You are putting the cap on without me having assessed your head size, so to speak.

The point was about the leave campaign - tone, tenor, narrative, target audience (the last point is still not an observation about you).

This one's a jumpy up and down man - may be MSE specific as the youngsters haven't taught me it yet? :j