Can UK veto Turkey?

CLAPTON

ruggedtoast wrote: »

No I am very much speaking just to you Clapton. You are unique, and not in a good way.

so you are a little bigot that doesn't want foreigners here

Enterprise_1701C

The referendum is a once in a lifetime thing, therefore we have to think ahead.

The EU have moved the goalposts to allow countries to join the Euro (cue the horrific problems places like Greece have had), what is to say they won't move the goalposts to further their desire for a massive United States of Europe (this is a stated aim rather than my opinion).

The idea of Turkey eventually being allowed to join is not a problem in itself, the problem is the porous borders of Turkey, they border Iran, Iraq, Syria and Armenia among others. All these could just cross into Turkey and they would then be in the Shengen area.

Turkey is not after being a member of the EU through altruistic reasons.

ruggedtoast

CLAPTON wrote: »

so you are a little bigot that doesn't want foreigners here

I guess I am "a little bigot who doesn't want foreigners here" in the same way that you aren't a blithering idiot.

ruggedtoast

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

The referendum is a once in a lifetime thing, therefore we have to think ahead.

The EU have moved the goalposts to allow countries to join the Euro (cue the horrific problems places like Greece have had), what is to say they won't move the goalposts to further their desire for a massive United States of Europe (this is a stated aim rather than my opinion).

The idea of Turkey eventually being allowed to join is not a problem in itself, the problem is the porous borders of Turkey, they border Iran, Iraq, Syria and Armenia among others. All these could just cross into Turkey and they would then be in the Shengen area.

Turkey is not after being a member of the EU through altruistic reasons.

They want to join for the same reason that every other country did. Political stability, free movement and access to an enormous free market.

Are you suggesting they have some other agenda?

In any case, Turkey doesn't meet EU entry criteria as they haven't done enough to curtail corruption or allow political freedom. Of course this didn't stop Greece or Italy getting in but hey ho.

Sapphire

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

The referendum is a once in a lifetime thing, therefore we have to think ahead.

The EU have moved the goalposts to allow countries to join the Euro (cue the horrific problems places like Greece have had), what is to say they won't move the goalposts to further their desire for a massive United States of Europe (this is a stated aim rather than my opinion).

The idea of Turkey eventually being allowed to join is not a problem in itself, the problem is the porous borders of Turkey, they border Iran, Iraq, Syria and Armenia among others. All these could just cross into Turkey and they would then be in the Shengen area.

Turkey is not after being a member of the EU through altruistic reasons.

I have a Turk in my family and have been to Turkey many times (including for archaeology work without my family, etc.), so I know the country and people very well.

The people I know personally are generally from the Istanbul and Ankara areas, and they are secular and quite well off (artists, architects, nutritionist and so on). They hate any form of extremism, and dislike Erdogan intensely. I don't believe those types of people would want come to Europe to settle here, though they might visit.

There are, however, a great many poor people who live in rural areas of Turkey. They tend to be religious and support Erdogan. I would imagine many of these people would like to come to Britain – particularly from the east of Turkey, which has always been a bit of no-go area for Europeans. Since Turkey has an enormous population, people here have every right to be worried – as they are about the concerns expressed towards the end of your post.

Note that the vast majority of Turks – even educated ones like those related to my in-law – don't speak English.

I don't think Merkel would take any notice of any democratic rights of citizens of countries in the EU. In my view she wouldn't hesitate to permit Turkey to join the EU – in the same way as she made decisions last year without consulting European countries or their citizens.

This is yet another reason why I will be voting for Brexit.

Generali

Sapphire wrote: »

I have a Turk in my family and have been to Turkey many times (including for archaeology work without my family, etc.), so I know the country and people very well.

The people I know personally are generally from the Istanbul and Ankara areas, and they are secular and quite well off (artists, architects, nutritionist and so on). They hate any form of extremism, and dislike Erdogan intensely. I don't believe those types of people would want come to Europe to settle here, though they might visit.

There are, however, a great many poor people who live in rural areas of Turkey. They tend to be religious and support Erdogan. I would imagine many of these people would like to come to Britain – particularly from the east of Turkey, which has always been a bit of no-go area for Europeans. Since Turkey has an enormous population, people here have every right to be worried – as they are about the concerns expressed towards the end of your post.

I don't think Merkel would take any notice of the wishes of the other countries in the EU. In my view she wouldn't hesitate to permit Turkey to join the EU – in the same way as she made decisions last year without consulting European countries or their citizens.

This is yet another reason why I will be voting for Brexit.

Will nobody think of the kebabas?

Sapphire

Generali wrote: »

Will nobody think of the kebabas?

Poor kebabs. I'm thinking of them. :beer:

Filo25

Sapphire, I genuinely don't see any way that Turkey will be joining the EU with the next 15 - 20 years, I don't think Germany has any great enthusiasm for them joining either, given the large Turkish community there, it would be likely to be the destination for a large proportion of any economic migrants who would move from Turkey in the aftermath of joining the EU.

Even if Germany were pushing for it, I think you overstate their ability to force through a policy like that in the face of strong opposition from many other countries within the EU.

Merkel took a big hit to her popularity last year for her response to the refugee crisis and I don't see her repeating the same mistake twice.

Is the Erdogan government even seriously interested in really joining the EU, I would think it would have limited appeal for a ruler as authoritarian as he has become.

Everyone might be playing nice with Turkey at present, hoping they will play a part in easing the refugee crisis, but I wouldn't read much more into it than that.

ruggedtoast

Turkey is never going to be part of the EU. They and the EU are well aware of this and have been since their accession bid was launched.

By moving toward EU accession criteria in the past though, they have got some concessions out of the EU. The only people who are "worried" about Turkey are rabid Kippers and professional xenophobes.

Sapphire

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Turkey is never going to be part of the EU. They and the EU are well aware of this and have been since their accession bid was launched.

By moving toward EU accession criteria in the past though, they have got some concessions out of the EU. The only people who are "worried" about Turkey are rabid Kippers and professional xenophobes.

You now appear to have switched your attention from 'boomers' to 'rabid Kippers and professional xenophobes'. Unlike you, I don't count among the latter the many people who are justifiably worried about the future of their countries, who care about their nations' identities and social cohesion, and who are concerned about the obvious possibility of war (again) due to Frau Merkel's actions and the dire decisions that have catapulted mainland Europe into economic failure. It's pointless to even read your rabid drivel – so I won't.