Cameron spending £9 Million on Brexit Propaganda.

kabayiri

wymondham wrote: »

Are there any up and coming programs/radio shows etc that give the facts about both sides? It would be great to hear unbiased information....

How can we get the facts when we don't know the EU position, or its' plans should the UK vote to leave.

An ex-Greek Finance minister (one of many presumably) described the EU as "Hotel California". I think he may be right.

You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.

Does this pattern sound familiar? Have you heard of any credible mechanism for a basket case country like Greece to leave the Euro; a sort of virtual reset button? I'm not aware of one.

The EU seems good at entry plans, but terrible at exit plans.

I don't think it augurs well for any hope for EU reform. They couldn't agree how to exit from any current arrangement.

To vote to Remain is to accept what the EU is; warts and all.

wymondham

This made me smile:
http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/politics/eurosceptic_east_anglian_photographer_livid_after_picture_appears_without_permission_in_government_s_9m_pro_eu_brochure_1_4491063

wymondham

kabayiri wrote: »

To vote to Remain is to accept what the EU is; warts and all.

.... but Government literature repeated says it's better to stay in a reformed EU..... I presume this mean the EU is guaranteed to reform? When will this be and what will the reforms be? it would be good to know before voting to stay in its club....

I think they use the 'reformed' bit as a get out in case Brexit win - well, the EU didn't reform did it so there you go!

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

kabayiri wrote: »

To vote to Remain is to accept what the EU is; warts and all.

To vote to remain is to accept that the EU isn't perfect but that on balance the benefits of remaining in it at this moment are better for the UK than the costs of voting to leave.

The government of the UK has the power to leave the EU any time it likes. Or call another in/out referendum any time it likes.

If things in the EU remain the same then we continue to have the benefits we have today. If they get better then great we're already in the club. And if they get worse we can always have another referendum and vote to leave.

Staying is the logical choice.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

wymondham wrote: »

.... but Government literature repeated says it's better to stay in a reformed EU..

The EU has made some material concessions to UK concerns and continues to reform and evolve all the time.

But no reasonable reforms would ever satisfy the Eurosceptics and Vote Leave group.

So no matter what happens with reforms some people will always claim it's never enough.

ChiefGrasscutter

Too right
The EU is just a scam to fk over the UK while grabbing as much as it can from us.

My employer found it far easier to do business outside the EU than it ever was inside the EU - well actually in some or the so called core EU countries it was just impossible.

I'd have never stopped bombing them frankly....I regard the EU as scum.

HornetSaver

kabayiri wrote: »

To vote to Remain is to accept what the EU is; warts and all.

Unquestionably.

Equally, to vote to Leave is to trust in the current Government and the EU to negotiate competently and in good faith, to achieve a sensible new relationship.

mwpt

kabayiri wrote: »

Does this pattern sound familiar? Have you heard of any credible mechanism for a basket case country like Greece to leave the Euro; a sort of virtual reset button? I'm not aware of one.

I'm sorry but, pardon?

The Greek people can hold a referendum, vote to leave the EU, and then do so. They are a sovereign country and can immediately close their borders and cease any trade deals, free movement and start printing their own currency. They can at the same time default on the debt they have accrued. No-one is going to go to war with them over such an action, it is entirely in their own hands.

angrypirate

kabayiri wrote: »

To vote to Remain is to accept what the EU is; warts and all.

And therein lies the problem - the government are not being truthful about the warts. I am yet to hear any high profile pro-remain campaigner honestly talk about the warts of the EU and that these warts may get worse over time.

kabayiri

mwpt wrote: »

I'm sorry but, pardon?

The Greek people can hold a referendum, vote to leave the EU, and then do so. They are a sovereign country and can immediately close their borders and cease any trade deals, free movement and start printing their own currency. They can at the same time default on the debt they have accrued. No-one is going to go to war with them over such an action, it is entirely in their own hands.

That isn't a credible exit plan you describe; just a response.

Planning is something you do beforehand, based on risk mitigation strategy.