The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

elantan

That debate was awful, not sure if anyone watched it or not, nothing new, nothing interesting ... thankfully not long till Friday till its all over and we find out if Scotland is a wee step closer to indy, will be interesting to hear Nicolas excuses for delaying another indyref, I don't think Scotland could handle one just now

Mistermeaner

Eine petit insightful post^

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

No I'm not forgetting either parliaments. As far as Westminster is concerned, whereas the prospect of the SNP holding the balance of power in a Goverment would be intolerable (better a hung parliament than that) the same would not be true for a Scottish unionist party. Quite the contrary actually. So I can see some electoral advantages.

As for your "nuclear deterrent", Trident, I expect that to be settled, in terms of getting Trident II started, this summer.

Oh stop trolling. I'm easy-osy on Trident. No firm views. Scottish Labour however though, really do have a problem there if it's Labour MP's votes that settle Trident II. Since their policy is not to renew it. If you can't see why that would be a problem for them, then there's not really much else I can say. But it WILL be a problem.

A unionist party is a pipe dream. Labour voters in Scotland are generally older and come from a generation of trade unionism and really red Labour. There's not a hope they'll get on board with the Conservatives, no matter how much distaste they have for the SNP. They've got just as much for the Tories.

Shakethedisease

elantan wrote: »

That debate was awful, not sure if anyone watched it or not, nothing new, nothing interesting ... thankfully not long till Friday till its all over and we find out if Scotland is a wee step closer to indy, will be interesting to hear Nicolas excuses for delaying another indyref, I don't think Scotland could handle one just now

Ruth did really well. Shame she seemed to be repeating exactly the same lines Scots heard from 2014 though. She's had plenty of practice that's for sure. But Boris's speech at the end will be what goes totally viral tomorrow.

It's not up to Nicola about another indy ref. Support has to be there first. If a Brexit does it fair enough, but if it doesn't move enough people over to supporting independence then that's that for a while. No point in holding a referendum just to lose it again. What good would that do.

Lets wait for the fallout and see what happens, there's no rush.

Scot, Eng, Result
Leave, Leave, Leave - Sad
Remain, Leave, Leave - indyref2
Remain, Leave, Remain - Hilarious
Remain, Remain, Remain - Shrug

^^^^^^
Insightful tweet. Made me titter in it's very concise summing up.

elantan

Yeah it will be BoJo that carries it, ( didn't think he was up to much at all ) I felt Ruth was awfy shouty and interupty as usual, she made a good few points but she wasn't anything great, maybe I expect better debate? Maybe I'm just used to better debate ?

Yep I do think that will be the line Nicola takes, I noticed quite a while ago she started changing from material change in circumstances to the people deciding, admittedly she has said the people deciding for a long time, but she hasn't said material change in circumstances for a while .. I do however specifically rember her saying another indy ref will happen if there is a material change in circumstances one of which could be the EU issue

Much as I want independence we are not ready for another indy ref just now and I think she is more than probably aware of that

wotsthat

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Ruth did really well. Shame she seemed to be repeating exactly the same lines Scots heard from 2014 though. She's had plenty of practice that's for sure. But Boris's speech at the end will be what goes totally viral tomorrow.

I didn't watch it but the odds on Betfair are unchanged so I assumed no real blows were landed.

A talking head on BBC R4 this morning wasn't taken in by, what I assume, was the usual Boris Johnson act (he's started to become a caricature of himself which is a bit odd). Instead it was mooted that in the event of a remain vote Boris Johnson ought to look out for Ruth Davidson as he takes his cabaret act on the road to become party leader.

Ruth had that against all the odds impossible win in the Scottish elections didn't she? On her uppers by the looks of it.

A scan of headlines (not very scientific I know) seems to suggest Davidson and Khan were the 'winners'. The Sun, however, have an exclusive about people taking cocaine in Harry Potter World.

elantan

saw this on twitter, its the new version of Shakies from earlier

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Oh stop trolling. I'm easy-osy on Trident. No firm views. Scottish Labour however though, really do have a problem there if it's Labour MP's votes that settle Trident II. Since their policy is not to renew it. If you can't see why that would be a problem for them, then there's not really much else I can say. But it WILL be a problem.

A unionist party is a pipe dream. Labour voters in Scotland are generally older and come from a generation of trade unionism and really red Labour. There's not a hope they'll get on board with the Conservatives, no matter how much distaste they have for the SNP. They've got just as much for the Tories.

Troll eh - you really do say the nicest things. Can you give me a link to the SNP Dictionary of Pejorative Expressions please.

I'm pleased with your response however.

skintmacflint

Just thought I'd mention the Scottish Conservative party has refuted the possibility of splitting from the main party.

Similarly the consultation proposed by Labour a few months on the same, is simply that. A consultation. Will come to nothing if long standing Labour traditional older voters have any say in it. Have lost count of number of consultations over the decades which are never heard of again. Particulalry from SNP. Lol.

As for older Labour traditionalist Union voters, IMO they could much easier 'hold their nose' and vote Conservative than vote SNP. Just watched it happen in last H/R election. A government is 5 years only.

Shakethedisease

skintmacflint wrote: »

Just thought I'd mention the Scottish Conservative party has refuted the possibility of splitting from the main party.

Yes they have

Similarly the consultation proposed by Labour a few months on the same, is simply that. A consultation.

Yes, they can't afford it.

Will come to nothing if long standing Labour traditional older voters have any say in it. Have lost count of number of consultations over the decades which are never heard of again. Particulalry from SNP. Lol.

As for older Labour traditionalist Union voters, IMO they could much easier 'hold their nose' and vote Conservative than vote SNP. Just watched it happen in last H/R election. A government is 5 years only.

No, they won't. They will just stay at home rather than vote for either. My 65 year old father, a trade union activist, ex-steel worker, Labour voter and shop steward all his life... did just that in May. As did three of my uncles. There's nothing to make them vote for either. No nose holding required. SNP voters far outnumber Conservative voters if traditional Labour voters stay at home. Those Labour voters that have switched recently, either went to the SNP in 2015, or to Conservative in 2016. The Conservatives still only managed 22% to the SNP's nearly 50%.

The Labour voters left are those like my dad.

But make no mistake. Ruth Davidson didn’t win second place as David Cameron’s wee Scottish helper. Au contraire, she won by keeping Cameron, Osborne et al at bay.

Now “sources close to the Scottish Tory leader” say she thinks the Scottish Tories will have to break away from the UK party and campaign under a new name if Boris Johnson succeeds David Cameron in the wake of a Brexit vote. Davidson denies this but did say Johnson has the same “brazen chauvinistic style” as Alex Salmond in a recent newspaper article.

But one thing’s certain. If the Scottish Conservatives have even considered going their own way in the event of an ultra-rightwing Tory party takeover, the union is doomed. Because at long last, the main defenders of the union have acknowledged that Scotland’s distinctive political culture doesn’t fit inside British political structures.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/22/nicola-sturgeon-britain-eu-referendum-scottish-independence

Ruth Davidson MORE than knows the score, she's far from stupid. She knows exactly what will happen in Scotland should Johnson ever lead the Conservatives.