The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Generali

CLAPTON wrote: »

there is no control at the NI and Southern Ireland border or on sea routes between S ireland and England

there is a difference between illegal and legal immigration.

however if Scotland became part od the Schegren area then that would pose some interesting issues.

Why would Schengen make a difference? A Pole hell-bent on entering England could go to (potentially) Scotland or (actually) Ireland, become a citizen and enter England.

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

once the issues with the political parties are all resolved we will have an interesting situation
probaly all the parties will be in favour of independence : the only problem then is the people of scotland are against

a bit little the Uk and immigration
all the parties are in favour : only the population are against.

In 2014 the population was against. Time and events should take care of that. The fact that Scottish Labour and the Conservatives are even considering such (totally unthinkable in 2014) moves such as splitting off from their UK parties in order to persue differing Scotland centric policies, is just evidence of further fraying of the political ties within the UK.

Things are moving on.

Generali

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Things are moving on.

We'll see.

I'm not sure that a controlled border with England will be a vote winner in Scotland and if these maniacs win and you lot head off then that's the logic of the positions.

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

We'll see.

I'm not sure that a controlled border with England will be a vote winner in Scotland and if these maniacs win and you lot head off then that's the logic of the positions.

Cameron called this referendum. I think Scotland will by and large vote to remain. If there's a Brexit, then borders or not will be decided elsewhere depending on just how far BoJo/Gove etc want to go with 'taking back control'. The Scottish Govt certainly don't want them. If there's another indy ref, I guess we'll all just have to see where we stand then.

I suspect NI will decide the precedent well before that. ( if Leave win on Thurs ).

CLAPTON

Generali wrote: »

Why would Schengen make a difference? A Pole hell-bent on entering England could go to (potentially) Scotland or (actually) Ireland, become a citizen and enter England.

that is the case today in any of the 27 EU nations: once they do that then they can as of right come to the UK.
shengen simply makes it easier to actually travel between states as there are no passport checks

at the moment the UK relies on the RoI to reject the immigrant.

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

In 2014 the population was against. Time and events should take care of that. The fact that Scottish Labour and the Conservatives are even considering such (totally unthinkable in 2014) moves such as splitting off from their UK parties in order to persue differing Scotland centric policies, is just evidence of further fraying of the political ties within the UK.

Things are moving on.

That's straight out of your bubble, Shakey, but I've got my own bubble which I'm free to use or not use.

My view is that splitting the Scottish Conservatives and Scottish Labour and maybe the Scottish LibDems from their English & Welsh Counterparts would be a good thing for the Union. Best, of course, would be one Unionist Party which is not likely at present unless Labour does fold and it's previous adherents need somewhere to go. In that context the splitting of the Scottish Conservatives from from the Tories would be a necessary precursor for that in order to pick up the newly created floating voters who might otherwise shy away from the Tory brand.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

That's straight out of your bubble, Shakey, but I've got my own bubble which I'm free to use or not use.

Fine by me.

My view is that splitting the Scottish Conservatives and Scottish Labour and maybe the Scottish LibDems from their English & Welsh Counterparts would be a good thing for the Union. Best, of course, would be one Unionist Party which is not likely at present unless Labour does fold and it's previous adherents need somewhere to go. In that context the splitting of the Scottish Conservatives from from the Tories would be a necessary precursor for that in order to pick up the newly created floating voters who might otherwise shy away from the Tory brand.

I guess you have to remember that the Scottish Labour and Conservatives I'm talking about are members of the Holyrood parliament, not the Westminster one.

The problem both have, is with presenting policies. For example Labour and Trident. The powers lie in Westminster, but Scottish Labour want it scrapped. If it isn't scrapped due to UK Labour MP votes.. then Scottish Labour will take the flack regardless. The same is true for the Scottish Tories in other areas. By all accounts Davidson sees just how toxic someone like Johnson or Fox is to Scottish Conservative hopes for the future.

Splitting off imo would be excellent for Scottish politics. Absolutely terrible for the union. How could they possibly argue that the union is working for and listening to Scots, if they themselves have to split off from UK central due to the differences in policy areas like *Trident ?

* for example

wotsthat

Won't it be great if, whatever the result, Scotland votes in a similar manner to the rest of the Union?

Well, great for unity but no so great for those peddling the faux politics of imagined difference.

elantan

Scottish Labour and Scottish Tories thinking about separating from the rest of them ... thus proving were better together :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Ye cannae make it up ... my sides are aching from laughing

.string.

Shakey wrote:

Splitting off imo would be excellent for Scottish politics. Absolutely terrible for the union. How could they possibly argue that the union is working for and listening to Scots, if they themselves have to split off from UK central due to the differences in policy areas like *Trident ?

No I'm not forgetting either parliaments. As far as Westminster is concerned, whereas the prospect of the SNP holding the balance of power in a Goverment would be intolerable (better a hung parliament than that) the same would not be true for a Scottish unionist party. Quite the contrary actually. So I can see some electoral advantages.

As for your "nuclear deterrent", Trident, I expect that to be settled, in terms of getting Trident II started, this summer.