The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

mollycat

Moby wrote: »

...But wasn't the line 'unless there is a material change' to the position of Scotland a caveat? You may not agree with that but as an outside observer it seems to me the Brexit vote is a huge 'material change'. The SNP will spin that and May's opportunism in calling for an election for all it's worth. Sturgeon will campaign on the view the only way Scotland can avoid Brexit and the policies of the tories will be by going independent? That's got to be a very powerful message....even if you disagree with it yourself?

Only in the head of the SNP spin doctors; both sides agreed to respect the result :rotfl:

Can't see where your coming from with the 2nd bit I've bolded; that lines been spinning for years, it's not valid.

Encouraging people to vote for a party that can never be in power by promising the undoable, (EU membership), just doesn't make sense.

We live in a UK democracy; most people accept democratic outcomes and seek to influence our society at every GE and the very occaisional referendums.

Frustratingly for most of us in Scotland there is a minority who will not accept democracy; offended at the choice of the majority, seeking to manipulate after the event (2014 and 2016 referenda), and indulging in the typical scapegoating politics which is typical of all types of nationalism throughout history.

Sturgeon can whinge, spin and lie all she wants. It may seem cool in it's anti-tory focus to like minded persons in rUK, but the people who live here, who will suffer the consequences of any ultimate success on her part, are absolutely sick of it.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Moby wrote: »

...But wasn't the line 'unless there is a material change' to the position of Scotland a caveat? You may not agree with that but as an outside observer it seems to me the Brexit vote is a huge 'material change'. The SNP will spin that and May's opportunism in calling for an election for all it's worth. Sturgeon will campaign on the view the only way Scotland can avoid Brexit and the policies of the tories will be by going independent? That's got to be a very powerful message....even if you disagree with it yourself?

Well the Scots people don't seem to agree with your stance, fortunately.
Yet again I point you to the YouGov poll and the 57% who would vote no.
So - even though you can try the "material change" spin - the fact is that we Scots don't want it.

And just how exactly will the SNP try to spin an "avoid Brexit and the policies of the tories" campaign?
Are you ignoring how many seats these Tories already hold?
Are you ignoring (again) how many would vote no as above?
There is no "powerful message" left for the SNP.
They are a tired party with nothing new to offer.
Added to which they have been seen to fail in so many areas.
And that is not a case of disagreeing, it is fact.

There will always be Scots who are avidly pro-SNP or similar, just as there will always be avidly pro-EU advocates in these forums.
But the days of wholesale support for the SNP have been and gone.
As will soon be seen.

Shaka_Zulu

mayonnaise wrote: »

They already have 54 of 59 seats.
No I don't expect big gains for the SNP.

Well you had 56/59 at the last election but 2 out of 56 were found to be ..............!!

So lets agree you have 56/59 ergo any loss and yer stuffed.

mollycat

BTW, no sign of the usual suspect on the forum tonight.

Busy at SNP HQ with her bosses being told how to spin this disastrous news for them on the internet?

A_Medium_Size_Jock

mollycat wrote: »

BTW, no sign of the usual suspect on the forum tonight.

Busy at SNP HQ with her bosses being told how to spin this disastrous news for them on the internet?

Or in meltdown on all those other busy forums?

TrickyTree83

Shaka_Zulu wrote: »

Well you had 56/59 at the last election but 2 out of 56 were found to be ..............!!

So lets agree you have 56/59 ergo any loss and yer stuffed.

I would say "any loss" would be pessimistic.

They will get a thumping. No more than 35 seats, probably less.

When you get given more money per person than any other area of the United Kingdom, you get powers over some taxation and borrowing and you still make mistakes such as centralising policing, failing NHS, disbanding investment committees, and a plethora of other mistakes besides, the only people who will be voting for them are those who believe that Scotland should be independent no matter what.

To this set of people nothing else matters. They don't believe they will be poorer, they don't believe there will be problems, they truly believe through the use of mysterious economic levers, not those that work for the rest of the UK and not Scotland - another mystery, that "Alba" will be the socialist land of milk and honey.

It won't be.

Just look at some of the wonderful suggestions on this thread thus far.

- charging the UK for services rendered, water, Faslane, etc... as if these are insurmountable problems...

- exporting wind power, that reliable source of energy that produces 365/24/7 and not only meets the need of an SNP non-nuclear "Alba" but produces enough to milk the English teat for what is over produced!

- oil fund, apparently within a matter of years "Alba" would be able to create an oil fund that compares and operates similarly to that of Norway. Neglecting to note that Noway has been funding it for coming up 40 years? According to a recent poll in Scotland some would see that as "a generation". :think:

Edit: Damn my eyes, I forgot the Whiskey!

All that export duty :think:, that alone should pay the welfare budget no?

veryintrigued

Two weeks ago the SNP leader was making barbed social media comments about May having no mandate as she was unelected.

And now she's still not happy.

She's crackers.

Thrugelmir

veryintrigued wrote: »

And now she's still not happy.

No longer in control of the agenda. Campaigning on an anti austerity message at the GE is going to be interesting to watch given the issues an IScotland will face.

sss555s

No one in Scotland expects the SNP to make any gains as it would be impossible for any UK party to expect that given the current number of held seats. If she loses a few it won't be any disaster as some would like to make out.

More to the point, what if May loses a number of seats? That will surely put her under even more pressure and undermine her position further from where you can only imagine she would resign.

veryintrigued

sss555s wrote: »

More to the point, what if May loses a number of seats? That will surely put her under even more pressure and undermine her position further from where you can only imagine she would resign.

Resignations?

A number of Labour MPs will be rubbing their hands at the thought of their 'leader' walking after a derisory showing.

I might have a flutter!!