The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

mollycat

Tromking wrote: »

Wow, that's a couple of highly unlikely scenarios you've dreamt up there.
There are as many Scots (maybe significantly more) who'll be just as angry with Sturgeon for pressing ahead with another indyref as will be aggrieved at the PM's perceived slight against Holyrood's authority by not granting one. In you quest for independence, do you or the SNP ever give those who don't share you views a thought?
The EU maybe a lot of things but the idea that it might directly start suggesting that a sovereign nation has a referendum that might end with that nation splitting is complete nonsense.
Think again Shakey, the situations where Scottish independence might happen are fast disappearing.

Spot on.....it's only these pages of nonsense that give the impression scots want a 2nd referendum.

Sooner Mrs May kyboshes it the happier most of us will be

Rinoa

Couple of interesting eMails highlighted in today's Daily Record. The first warns that child poverty can only get worse under Tory cuts. MP Eilidh Whiteford says that a report from Policy In Practice shows cuts to child credit will see a 10 per cent increase in child poverty by 2020.

She said: “It’s clear that this Tory government remain wedded to austerity and these latest cuts – which fall on already stretched low and middle income households – will actually increase child poverty and exacerbate the deep-rooted injustices that exist in our society thanks to a bombardment of cuts from Westminster.”
She added: “The SNP Scottish Government are determined to deliver a more equal, fair and inclusive society and that’s why we are committed to using every ounce of the limited powers we have to reduce poverty and tackle inequality.

The second email, a day later, takes a very different tone. MSP Maree Todd is delighted to tell us that:

Iindependent analysis shows Scots spend 24 per cent less on council tax than folk in England.
She says the research from the Scottish Parliament “proves beyond all doubt that Scottish taxpayers continue to get the best deal out of anyone in the UK, thanks to the SNP.”

So there you have it. The SNP are all for an equal society, reducing poverty and tackling inequality - as long as its not Scottish folk paying the bills.

Shakethedisease

Tromking wrote: »

Wow, that's a couple of highly unlikely scenarios you've dreamt up there.
There are as many Scots (maybe significantly more) who'll be just as angry with Sturgeon for pressing ahead with another indyref as will be aggrieved at the PM's perceived slight against Holyrood's authority by not granting one. In you quest for independence, do you or the SNP ever give those who don't share you views a thought?
The EU maybe a lot of things but the idea that it might directly start suggesting that a sovereign nation has a referendum that might end with that nation splitting is complete nonsense.
Think again Shakey, the situations where Scottish independence might happen are fast disappearing.

We'll see about that. You're leaving the EU, they owe you no favours. Stranger things have happened especially when there are Tories threatening War, Task Forces and jingoistic media are headlining ' Up your's Senors'... There might well be a few up yours returned.

You sound a little worried to be honest. Has the scenario of the EU politely suggesting May offer a section 30 (which the Scottish Govt democratically voted for ).. in order to clarify the matter not occurred to you yet ? The EU guidelines voted through last week do explicitly recognise that Scotland voted Remain. May's 'now is not the time' narrative at the moment suggests there will be a referendum going ahead anyway at some point in the near future. Makes sense all round for it to happen as soon as possible from a negotiating stance I would've said.

Shakethedisease

Rinoa wrote: »

Couple of interesting eMails highlighted in today's Daily Record. The first warns that child poverty can only get worse under Tory cuts. MP Eilidh Whiteford says that a report from Policy In Practice shows cuts to child credit will see a 10 per cent increase in child poverty by 2020.
The second email, a day later, takes a very different tone. MSP Maree Todd is delighted to tell us that:

So there you have it. The SNP are all for an equal society, reducing poverty and tackling inequality - as long as its not Scottish folk paying the bills.

Scottish people pay tax too. Council tax is devolved which means the Scottish Govt are free to implement whatever council taxes they feel best. Is down to how the Scottish Govt prioritise their spending in different sectors with the budget they hace.

Welfare isn't reserved at the moment. Which means poverty occurring due to Conservative welfare cuts, is exactly what it says on the tin. Down to Conservative welfare cuts.

So there you have it. You're mixing devolved and reserved consequentials up as if they're the same thing. Newspapers like to do this too. Is an easy way to kick the SNP for things that aren't actually currently within the Scottish Govt's remit.

Rinoa

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Scottish people pay tax too. Council tax is devolved which means the Scottish Govt are free to implement whatever council taxes they feel best. Is down to how the Scottish Govt prioritise their spending in different sectors with the budget they hace.

Welfare isn't reserved at the moment. Which means poverty occurring due to Conservative welfare cuts, is exactly what it says on the tin. Down to Conservative welfare cuts.

So there you have it. You're mixing devolved and reserved consequentials up as if they're the same thing. Newspapers like to do this too. Is an easy way to kick the SNP for things that aren't actually currently within the Scottish Govt's remit.

I'm sure you could do an awful lot if you raised council tax by 24%. The SNP choose not to and even boast about it.

They then claim Westminster aren't giving them enough money and the poor wee bairns will suffer. You couldn't make it up.

mrginge

Shakethedisease wrote: »

You sound a little worried to be honest. Has the scenario of the EU politely suggesting May offer a section 30 (which the Scottish Govt democratically voted for ).. in order to clarify the matter not occurred to you yet ? The EU guidelines voted through last week do explicitly recognise that Scotland voted Remain. May's 'now is not the time' narrative at the moment suggests there will be a referendum going ahead anyway at some point in the near future. Makes sense all round for it to happen as soon as possible from a negotiating stance I would've said.

Well I'm not too sure about this one shakey. The EU have just had a little prod into Gibraltar that didn't go down particularly well, so I'm not sure a bigger prod at Scotland will be any more welcome.

Thrugelmir

mrginge wrote: »

Well I'm not too sure about this one shakey. The EU have just had a little prod into Gibraltar that didn't go down particularly well, so I'm not sure a bigger prod at Scotland will be any more welcome.

Wasn't the EU. It was a sovereign state. Ultimately they still have the final say into the final outcome.

Shakethedisease

Rinoa wrote: »

I'm sure you could do an awful lot if you raised council tax by 24%. The SNP choose not to and even boast about it.

They then claim Westminster aren't giving them enough money and the poor wee bairns will suffer. You couldn't make it up.

Yes but you did try to make it up. Welfare is reserved, the SNP have nothing to do with it as yet.

Council taxes devolved. All parties agree there does need to be serious reform but alas, the last time the SNP tried it as a minority govt, all of the other parties blocked it. The same is likely to occur now with the SNP once again a minority govt. The other parties will just vote anything down the SNP suggest as a replacement in case it looks like they agree with them. Pointless exercise. A tricky area, needs sorted with no party in Scotland quite sure where to go with it so the status quo prevails for now.

But Tory cuts in welfare are Tory cuts in welfare over the last few years and in the next few. End of story.

Shakethedisease

mrginge wrote: »

Well I'm not too sure about this one shakey. The EU have just had a little prod into Gibraltar that didn't go down particularly well, so I'm not sure a bigger prod at Scotland will be any more welcome.

You think May stating over and over again like a robot that 'Now is not the time'... isn't going to mean that Scotland and the EU are going to be asking 'well when is then ?'

The ball is in May's court. She's indicating by saying this that there will be one at some point, just not now. It's a political stance that cannot survive for long and she's going to be under pressure from all interested parties (Scotland/EU) either to rule one out completely, or else name the date mrginge. Sturgeon's already indicated she's willing to be flexible, within reason, with the date.. as long as a referendum is ruled in. May's only real option going forward is to rule one out and soon.

Because logically there's very, very little point in going through 2 or 3 years of negotiations with the UK over a transactional and trade deals, only for a referendum just after all that with even the slightest chance of the UK splitting up ( and there's more than a slight chance). Is in everyone's interests to get this resolved one way or the other.

mollycat

Shakethedisease wrote: »

You think May stating over and over again like a robot that 'Now is not the time'... isn't going to mean that Scotland and the EU are going to be asking 'well when is then ?'

A minority number of people in Scotland you mean.

Posters here need to stop giving the impression they are speaking on behalf of all of us!

It happens so often, it's either deliberate, (dishonest), or in good faith, (deluded).