The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Well I'm not going to quote the entirety of your post. But just about all of it proves the point I was making. You managed the whole lot barely mentioning Brexit, barely mentioning what the Tories have planned over the next few years and still stuck sniping on about the same stuff we've all been hearing since 2011.

Economic growth, cutting the UK deficit and getting a good deal from the EU. Anything else you think they may have planned is in your imagination.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Brexit will hurt Scotland's interests no matter what happens. This particular Conservative Govt and any following will only exacerbate matters. You and others like you are still living in some 2014 fantasy land where Spain will veto, the banks are Scottish ( let's forget the Halifax thing ).. and Shetland will stay in the UK if there's a Yes vote plastered all over newspapers today. As well as the myth of 3% fiscal deficits to join the EU ( <--- it's for joining the Eurozone by the way, where on earth are you getting your info from ? ).

Joining the Eurozone is a pre-requisite of new membership to the EU. So it becomes a pre-requisite for EU membership to have your financial affairs in order, which Scotland does not.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Move on. Brexit and what this Conservative govt indicates re Scottish future interests both political and economic over the next few years ( ie ignore ) isn't sustainable. Not in a political union.

No substance, just ideological waffle.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Ashcroft's polling released yesterday has a full 55% of Scots who don't like the way the UK is heading. And that's not including the 17% of don't know's. With Sturgeon topping the politicians poll on doing a good job. Davidson is now firmly in negative territory, May even worse. Things are inching slowly but surely the Scottish Govt's way on this as people wake up to the reality of Brexit and May in charge.

Only if you interpret the meanings of the questions asked to be what you want them to be. When asked direct questions the results are quite different.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

The professor's blog is correct. Scottish independence IS more attractive in the wake of Brexit and this Tory Govt. If only for the fact it highlights just how little relevance Scotland has in this so called equal partnered ( copyright BetterTogether 2014 ) union.

Holy !!!!.. the professors blog is so crammed with the same ideological guff you spout I've a mind to write to his faculty. The man has no clue, none, about what kind of deal we're going to get. He therefore has to assume it's one of the extremes as I outlined for you previously. Either it's a good deal and there's no point in leaving the UK or it's a bad deal and you have to choose whose trade is more important. Of course with that trade comes jobs, tax revenue, public spending, etc... Leaving the UK under the shadow of a bad UK-EU deal will be a disaster for Scottish public services, the likes of which you've never seen. You think the cuts now are something to turn people away from the union, wait until the people are actively hunting nationalists for visiting this level of pain on them. The professor appears to be a moron or an ideologue.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Deficits can be dealt with, but only when one has the tools needed to do so. One has to obtain the tools first...

!!!!ing hilarious.

What's the Conservative government doing with the UK deficit? Bringing it down? What's the SNP doing with the Scottish deficit? Increasing it.

If you want higher levels of public service (free tuition, free prescriptions, etc...) it's time you came to terms with the fact that they need paying for. The time of borrowing from the children of tomorrow has passed and thank god it has.

kelpie35

What's the Conservative government doing with the UK deficit? Bringing it down? What's the SNP doing with the Scottish deficit? Increasing it.

If you want higher levels of public service (free tuition, free prescriptions, etc...) it's time you came to terms with the fact that they need paying for. The time of borrowing from the children of tomorrow has passed and thank god it has.

Have to agree with this 100%

As a Scot living in Scotland I only see the SNP ruining our part of the country.

The sooner people waken up to the fact that the SNP are not interested in doing the work, that is required, to make our lives better, the better.

They are only interested in independence and nothing else.

I just pray to God it never happens in my lifetime.

sss555s

islandannie wrote: »

Oh so much garbage so little time!!!
I suspect this utter rubbish is plucked straight from the wangs over scotland site.
Please point us to the qualitative proof of these figures? Or go away and read up on economics

Sounds like your floundering, did you not know that Scotland pays a share of the "services" Westminster provide!

The Better Care Fund is a pooled budget, initially £5.3 billion announced by the Cameron Government in the June 2013 Spending Round. Local councils are allowed to increase the local fund. The intention is to shift resources into social care and community services from the NHS budget in England and so save £1 billion a year

In February 2017 the National Audit Office produced a report saying that the £5.3 billion spent in 2015/16 had not delivered value for money. Emergency hospital admissions had increased by 87,000 between 2014/15 and 2015/16, rather than the planned reduction of 106,000, which had cost an additional £311 million. Delayed transfers of care increased by 185,000 days, rather than the planned reduction of 293,000, which had cost £146 million more.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Care_Fund

Westminster nuggets like the above are costing us all.

Between 2009-2014 Scotland contributed over £17bn to service the debt of Westminster's atrocious management.

We have HS2 to look forward to also. :eek:

TrickyTree83

sss555s wrote: »

Sounds like your floundering, did you not know that Scotland pays a share of the "services" Westminster provide!





https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Care_Fund

Westminster nuggets like the above are costing us all.

Between 2009-2014 Scotland contributed over £17bn to service the debt of Westminster's atrocious management.

We have HS2 to look forward to also. :eek:

Barnett consequentials.

I'll let you do the research, I've posted it enough times already.

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Economic growth, cutting the UK deficit and getting a good deal from the EU. Anything else you think they may have planned is in your imagination.

Joining the Eurozone is a pre-requisite of new membership to the EU. So it becomes a pre-requisite for EU membership to have your financial affairs in order, which Scotland does not.

Joining the Eurozone can be deferred indefinitely as many EU members already do. I thought you were supposed to know about this sort of thing ? Why keep presenting this 'Scotland will have to use the Euro when it joins the EU' narrative as a fact ? You must know it's not ?

There will need to be a deficit reduction plan in place if required but that in itself is no barrier to joining the EU either.

No substance, just ideological waffle.

Only if you interpret the meanings of the questions asked to be what you want them to be. When asked direct questions the results are quite different.

Holy !!!!.. the professors blog is so crammed with the same ideological guff you spout I've a mind to write to his faculty. The man has no clue, none, about what kind of deal we're going to get. He therefore has to assume it's one of the extremes as I outlined for you previously. Either it's a good deal and there's no point in leaving the UK or it's a bad deal and you have to choose whose trade is more important. Of course with that trade comes jobs, tax revenue, public spending, etc... Leaving the UK under the shadow of a bad UK-EU deal will be a disaster for Scottish public services, the likes of which you've never seen. You think the cuts now are something to turn people away from the union, wait until the people are actively hunting nationalists for visiting this level of pain on them. The professor appears to be a moron or an ideologue.

!!!!ing hilarious.

What's the Conservative government doing with the UK deficit? Bringing it down? What's the SNP doing with the Scottish deficit? Increasing it.

If you want higher levels of public service (free tuition, free prescriptions, etc...) it's time you came to terms with the fact that they need paying for. The time of borrowing from the children of tomorrow has passed and thank god it has.

The union now depends on this mythical 'good deal' the EU is going to strike with the UK. AND on May softening her Brexit stance right down to include single market access which is barely different from now. I wish you luck in both because I am not convinced myself that either is achievable in the current political and right wing Conservative driven agenda. All backed up by a rabid anti-EU press/media when it's suggested for example that the UK pay even a single penny towards exit bills etc.

Sturgeon is keeping a door held open for Scots voters once the divorce negotiations are over.

As for Tories, Barnett and it's consequentials There was a huge standoff last Feb over the new Fiscal Framework based off the Smith Commission which Barnett now takes into account.

Negotiations over the fiscal framework have been going on since March 2015, with a lengthy deadlock over the issue of Scotland's block grant.Confirming a deal had been done, First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said "not a single penny" would be taken from the Scottish government's budget.

What was the problem?

The final sticking point in the talks revolved around how Scotland's block grant from Westminster would be reduced in light of new fundraising powers being devolved as part of the Scotland Bill.
Scotland's population is projected to grow more slowly than that of the UK's in the coming years, and the two parties disagreed over how to balance out the financial impact of this after the first five years of the deal.
A compromise was reached on how this would work for the first five years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-35641714

Osborne only backed down in order to concentrate on the upcoming Brexit referendum. But the whole thing is back up for renegotiation in 2022. I daresay any Conservative party vowing to cut that in the run up to the 2020 General Election like Osborne wanted to do will have plenty of support.

We're not daft you know. We know what's likely to happen with Barnett. The Conservative party do too, and furthermore are likely to run an election campaign ( England only ) including it in their election manifesto. This is another thing Scots voters really do need to be aware of should a second independence referendum occur.

Conrad

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Brexit might really hurt the current as it stands Scottish economy, and a Brexit under this and successive Conservative governments might hurt even more.


Harsh but true.

Hope you are keeping up with latest posts in the Brexit thread - lots of evidence coming through that things are looking good, the Belgians want a good trade deal for UK, City hiring is in rude health.


I hereby absolutely and categorically state Scotland will not vote to leave the good ship Brexit UK. I see many complex theories and debates in this thread but in the end it will come down to the simple reality that the Scottish people wanting to be a part of confident global Britain as we embark on a truly exciting journey.


There is no love for the EU, forget it. In study after study Remainers cant even name the EU President or Commissioner, people are not genuinely emotionally attached to the EU

mollycat

Shakethedisease wrote: »

We're not daft you know. We know what's likely to happen with Barnett. The Conservative party do too, and furthermore are likely to run an election campaign ( England only ) including it in their election manifesto. This is another thing Scots voters really do need to be aware of should a second independence referendum occur.

"We're".....attempting to speak on behalf of all Scots again are we? Pretty sure a number of posters have told you not to do this.

Barnet was tolerate/ignored by rUK voters, until put in the spotlight by the independence campaign.

Bit rich to now alarm the Scottish electorate that the rUK electorate may wish some fairness to be introduced.

Then again, that was a very transparent "long game", wasn't it?
Ramp up the unjustified grudge, imaginary discrimination until rUK is so fed up they actually want us to leave.

The desire to live in a 2nd class economy, with 2nd class services and forever reduced opportunities for our young people (ad infinitum) continues to baffle me.

Just as well it'll never happen!

HornetSaver

The SNP have been lecturing rUK for decades about devolution and decentralisation.

They go and centralise the entire Scottish police, and this happens:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-39567057

Shakethedisease

Conrad wrote: »

Hope you are keeping up with latest posts in the Brexit thread - lots of evidence coming through that things are looking good, the Belgians want a good trade deal for UK, City hiring is in rude health.

Yes I've been keeping up with the Brexit thread Conrad thanks. I confess though to finding it a little bit unbalanced though with the articles presented. As well as far too concerned with what's going to happen in a future EU years down the line rather than what's going to happen to the UK leaving the EU over the next few years.

There's no actual evidence of anything yet. Like a future Scottish independence.

I hereby absolutely and categorically state Scotland will not vote to leave the good ship Brexit UK. I see many complex theories and debates in this thread but in the end it will come down to the simple reality that the Scottish people wanting to be a part of confident global Britain as we embark on a truly exciting journey.

There's a lot of Scots don't find it exciting, they find it a frightening prospect. Parallels of course there with those who do not wish Scotland to vote for independence. They too find it a very frightening prospect.

There is no love for the EU, forget it. study after study Remainers cant even name the EU President or Commissioner, people are not genuinely emotionally attached to the EU

In Scotland it's now gone well beyond the EU to using the EU vote as the latest example of how Scotland doesn't count in this union. Many unionists do not like this approach to the gearing up for a second ref, but the logic is irrefutable given how much consideration any of the devolved nations have received so far during the Brexit journey. May made a mistake I think in not even appearing slightly willing to take proposals and concerns into consideration.

Why the current UK-Scotland constitutional impasse was far from inevitable

As the Single Market is the essential component of Scotland’s Place in Europe, it is difficult to imagine that the paper was given a great deal of consideration. Devolution of immigration, one of the related options raised, was also ruled out expeditiously. In the Prime Minister’s Article 50 letter, she mentions Scotland only once, with no reference to any kind of differentiated settlement. The Prime Minister did establish an EU Negotiations configuration of the Joint Ministerial Committee, but the public feedback from the devolved administrations has often seemed more that of frustration rather than productive cooperation.

Now, it is perfectly possible to argue that the UK government is responsible for governing in the interests of the entire UK, that foreign policy is a reserved matter, and that the EU referendum was a UK-wide vote. However, that sort of approach to Brexit is not what the Prime Minister pledged, and it is not what is sustainable for devolution. Indeed, as a consequence of that approach being pursued, political-level intergovernmental relations between the UK centre and Scotland seem at a low. The current constitutional impasse was not inevitable – the situation might well have been different, with the right amount of goodwill and compromise on both sides.

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/uk-scotland-constitutional-impasse/

full article at link. And this from the Ashcroft poll see's Scotland and rUK moving in very different directions.

In answer to the question “Do you think Britain is on the right track, or heading in the wrong direction” Scots stated by a resounding 67% to 33% (excluding don’t knows) that Britain is heading in the wrong direction. This compares to a clear majority in England that Britain is heading in the right direction. (Table 15).

Scots are much less obsessed than the English with controlling immigration. Only 28% of Scots named controlling immigration as one of the top three political issues, significantly lower than any region of England. (Table 19) A tiny 4% of Scots think immigration is the most important issue (Table 20).

cogito

Out of curiosity, are there any stats about immigrants in Scotland? I can't help feeling that if immigration isn't a big issue, it could well be because there aren't many in the country.