The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

Because the eu wont let us do that without allowing freedom of movement,

And Theresa May thought it more politically expediant to pander to the anti-immigration crowd than to protect the Nations prosperity.

and we would still have to contribute to a failing institution with no say over what they do.

You can repeat that as often as you like - but you're still wrong.

Negotiations haven't even started yet, no-one knows what deal we will end up with

,

We already know it's a worse deal than the best deal possible.

all we do know is that we will not be forced down the pan with the rest of the eu.

Your hatred of the EU completely warps your perspective of reality.

Enterprise_1701C

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Scotland tried to compromise first.

Indyref2 was only called after such attempts at compromise were completely rebuffed by the arrogant Theresa May.

She didn't try to compromise, she made unworkable demands. She knew she was doing so and fully expected to gain her greatest desire, the chance to demand a referendum again.

The EU referendum was on the table in 2013, it is not our fault that you in Scotland assumed we would vote to stay in.

It is totally unreasonable to work on a referendum for a woman that didn't get her own way whilst trying to work on getting the best deal for the UK as a whole from the eu, and she is doing her level best to wreck all that we are trying to do. If she really wanted the best for Scotland, and the UK in general, she would knuckle down and help to get the best deal possible, and then look at the matter again in a few years time.

She wants the worst deal possible for the UK, she wants any excuse for a referendum, and it will be bad for her if and when we get a good deal.

Unlike some on this thread I believe in the UK.

Enterprise_1701C

Oh, and I voted to stay in the eu. It is their reactions in general to the decision of the UK to leave the eu that has turned me against them.

Thrugelmir

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

Oh, and I voted to stay in the eu. It is their reactions in general to the decision of the UK to leave the eu that has turned me against them.

The timing of recent events couldn't make "their" mindset any clearer. In the broadest sense can Scotland afford to damage it's relationship with England at the current time. Nor inflict damage and uncertainty on an economy which is trailing the UK in general.

.string.

Well the bottom line at the moment is that Sturgeon's request for a referendum is a hostile act, with a very debatable gain to the independence cause but with a potentially severe disruption to the UK as a whole. Such a situation is not trivial and she can expect an appropriate rebuff from May.

Sturgeon's letter was not very clever and so I am extra interested to see how May will reply.

sss555s

.string. wrote: »

If Scotland eventually did vote by 50% plus 1 person for independence and Scotland was trying to negotiate a trade deal with the rUK, would you expect the Scottish Government to be satisfied with a trade deal which was based on the condition that you could trade across the new border provided you accepted that you remained bound by the laws of the UK and were prevented from negotiating trade deals with other countries.

Somehow I don't think so.

Scotland would aim to be in the EU in some way or another as quickly as possible so we would be getting the same deal as the EU as part of the EU. You have gone on to say you are looking for the best deal you can achieve with the EU so you are looking for that deal with Scotland too.

For the Brussels V's Westminster debate...
Scotland is currently working under the control of Brussels with a heavy Westminster control on top. Removing Westminster control will make a massive difference by giving Scotland control of it's own decisions in a way we don't have at the moment.
One of the main winning points of Brexit was control over immigration. Scotland welcomes and desires immigration and Scotland also voted to remain in the EU by a big margin.

Another thing that a lot of people from outside Scotland struggle to realise is the an independent Scotland can elect which ever party it likes in a post Sexit Scotland. SNP in fairness probably stands up for Scotland more than any other party within the UK but things may be different post Sexit.

Thrugelmir

sss555s wrote: »

One of the main winning points of Brexit was control over immigration. Scotland welcomes and desires immigration and Scotland also voted to remain in the EU by a big margin.

9,000 people a year is neither here nor there. Would suggest that Scotland isn't migrating Eastern Europeans primary choice.

Also goes a long way to explain the divergence of views and impact on local communities. Schools, Doctors, Hospitals, Housing, Social Services, Crime, Drugs, Prostitution, Guns, Gangs, Violence. Issues which are prevalent here. The debate isn't just about trade but quality of life. Also retaining culture and identity.

sss555s

.string. wrote: »

Well the bottom line at the moment is that Sturgeon's request for a referendum is a hostile act, with a very debatable gain to the independence cause but with a potentially severe disruption to the UK as a whole. Such a situation is not trivial and she can expect an appropriate rebuff from May.

Sturgeon's letter was not very clever and so I am extra interested to see how May will reply.

It's fair to say it's on the same level as Brexit in that context.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

whilst trying to work on getting the best deal for the UK as a whole from the eu,

Again - as clearly you didn't understand the first dozen times you've been told.....

Theresa May is NOT trying to get the best deal for the UK as a whole.

She's pandering to the hard right wing of the Tory party and has already ruled out the best possible deal preferring to get a worse one.

and she is doing her level best to wreck all that we are trying to do.

What you're trying to do - ie a hard, extreme, Brexit that will make us all poorer - should be wrecked as it will be worse for Britain, worse for it's constituent nations, and worse for all those who reside in them if you succeed.

If she really wanted the best for Scotland, and the UK in general, she would knuckle down and help to get the best deal possible, and then look at the matter again in a few years time.

Again - Mayhem has already ruled out getting the best possible deal for the UK.

So the best possible outcome for Scotland is now to leave the UK as quickly as possible and set about rejoining the EU or EEA.

She wants the worst deal possible for the UK, .

Actually I suspect she doesn't care either way what kind of deal you get - she only cares how quickly we can get Scotland out of the UK to rejoin the EU/EEA.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Schools,

There are millions fewer children in school today than when I was a child. Because we've failed to breed at the replacement rate for almost five decades.

Any failures with Schools are entirely of our own making.

Doctors, Hospitals, Social Services

Used overwhelmingly by our own rapidly ageing population who pay in less than they take out and on average have done so for their entire lives.

And subsidised by EU immigrants who on average pay in more than they take out.

Housing

That's the fault of NIMBY's - not EU migrants.

Crime, Drugs, Prostitution, Guns, Gangs, Violence. Issues which are prevalent here.

If you think all those things are 'prevalent' here you should probably try getting out in the real world a bit more and reading the Daily Mail a bit less.

Also retaining culture and identity.

Ahh - that old chestnut.

You know the funny thing about people who claim not to be racist or xenophobic is the things they say are identical to the excuses racists and xenophobes use when trying to justify their racism and xenophobia.

No wonder the rest of us have such a hard time telling them apart....