The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Simmer down and take some deep breaths. It's not like you weren't given ample warning that this vote today was both on the cards, and likely to be passed by majority when presented.

All Scottish areas and territories that went into the Union in 1707 will leave with it. Both D+G and the Northern Isles included, both of which have unionist MP's there only by virtue of a couple of hundred votes these days anyway with the SNP second.

And finally some very clever people starting to question and look into these section 30 arguments v's the legalities of referendums. Curtice has obviously been reading up. This is someone paraphrasing from the BBC report he was on earlier.


After Easter and if no further forward, I think there's a chance the Scottish Govt will take this straight to the Supreme Court for quick clarification. The SNP have been preparing for this for eons they must know these laws backwards. Re Govt direction v's Constitutional question. Suits them for now though, to have May digging her heels in for a few weeks. Unless of course May blinks first and issues a Section 30 anyway.

Ah ha, so it's only a 'country' when it suits is it?

It's nothing to do with simmering down, I knew I'd draw some ridiculous rebuttal with those comments.

Scotland can leave Great Britain but the Northern Isles cannot leave Scotland in Neverendum Land.

And with respect, John is not a UK constitutional lawyer, a political scientist, commentator, but not a constitutional lawyer. It would be deemed illegal, it's pretty clear to even lay-people with the way the Scotland act is worded.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

That's right. But the Scottish Govt won't be legislating or passing any laws. You're running 100mph up the wrong garden path on this one.

To be fair, they're not are they?

Holding a referendum binding or not on constitutional matters when constitutional matters are reserved will be a breach of the Scotland act.

I really want the SNP to try that. It'll see Holyrood come crashing down with a bump, perhaps even dissolved temporarily as they would have wilfully neglected UK law if they attempt to interfere in UK constitutional affairs.

elantan

Fascinating how so many here like Tricky and shaka zulu are just so desperate to keep Scotland ... let's get autonomy for the UK ... but oh no don't you Scots start thinking about it

The hypocrisy gives me hic cups from laughing so much

sss555s

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Dumfries and Galloway have made their position clear too.

Do you have a link for that?

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

That's right. But the Scottish Govt won't be legislating or passing any laws. You're running 100mph up the wrong garden path on this one.

I have argued some pages back that an advisory referendum, were it to be challenged in court, would either be illegal because it's intent fell into the area of a Reserved Matter and thus outside of the competence of the Scottish Parliament, or it was judged not to be impinging on a Reserved Matter and thus was inconsequential and thus ineffective.

I presume you are familiar with this A second Scottish independence referendum without a s.30 Order? A legal question that demands a political answer, prepared by Stephen Tierney, an adviser to the SNP?

In that piece much the same observation is made - see the section entitled "The plausible case for the legality of a consultative referendum".

The observation is made that the situation is murkey and needs political will to resolve it. I doubt if that will exists particularly in the current context. But a court case does not seem to me to be one the SNP would win in a way of value to them. Whether it is legislation or not is beside the point, it is it's intent and/or potential consequence. So if the SNP were to win the case on the sense that they could hold their "consultation" the result would, by definition, not be a credible tool for their cause.

The point is also made that if there is controversy about a referendum it's legitimacy/credibility will suffer, if anyone turns up to vote on it that is. That part of the blog is worth reading also see "A failure of politics: bad for the Supreme Court, bad for citizens". See, for example, the last paragraph.


In the debate on the Scottish Parliament, it was pointed out time and time again, that the SNP had not taken the people with them. It's a salient point.

kabayiri

elantan wrote: »

Fascinating how so many here like Tricky and shaka zulu are just so desperate to keep Scotland ... let's get autonomy for the UK ... but oh no don't you Scots start thinking about it

The hypocrisy gives me hic cups from laughing so much

I'm not desperate to keep Scotland.

I said before that if enough of you vote to leave, then that is what you should do.

I just prioritize a successful Brexit and the whole UK interests over another Scottish indy ref.

.string.

So it seems that May is, after all, to write a multi-page letter on A50, setting out her stall. Should be interesting.

TrickyTree83

elantan wrote: »

Fascinating how so many here like Tricky and shaka zulu are just so desperate to keep Scotland ... let's get autonomy for the UK ... but oh no don't you Scots start thinking about it

The hypocrisy gives me hic cups from laughing so much

Can say exactly the same for the Northern Isles and Dumfries and Galloway

Sucks when being in the union is better than not right? But you so desperately want to leave it, for "reasons" that are unknown/cannot be understood/just plain stupid.

TrickyTree83

sss555s wrote: »

Do you have a link for that?

http://www.thenational.scot/news/14896113.___A_nonsensical_stunt______Call_for_referendum_on_whether_Dumfries_and_Galloway_should_stay_in_the_UK_when_Scotland_becomes_independent/

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/indy-fear-prompts-calls-dumfries-8832749

elantan

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Can say exactly the same for the Northern Isles and Dumfries and Galloway

Sucks when being in the union is better than not right? But you so desperately want to leave it, for "reasons" that are unknown/cannot be understood/just plain stupid.

The country of Dumfries and Galloway ... the country of Orkney ... sounds an interesting prospect ... shame they are not eh

I've gave my reasons do keep up