The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/holyrood-s-indyref2-vote-rejected-by-westminster-1-4405727

My word...

The online poll they're running is interesting, 5000+ respondents.

I imagine the masses outside Holyrood in that video were unable to reply to the poll, perhaps that might swing it in their favour?

The Scotsman ? You might as well stand outside the local Young Conservatives club and canvas there. Online polls that are outwith the BPC are self selecting and not representative. Echo chambers in other words.

Even BPC Polls won't be at all relevant until Spring 2018 at the very earliest. It should also be remembered that in 2011 the SNP came from nowhere to win a majority in a system designed to produce only minority governments. SNP based campaigning focuses very much on the end game in elections and referendums. Not quite enough in 2014 but nearly there and close enough to produce panic.

In March 2011, two months before the election, Labour held a double-digit lead over the SNP in the opinion polls,[23] 44% to 29%.[24] The SNP's support subsequently rallied, with the two parties level in April polling. In the final poll on the eve of the election, the SNP were eleven points clear of Labour.[23][25]

Bear this in mind when you're talking about self selecting online polls, BPC official polling or petitions almost 18 months out at least from any, as yet, hypothetical vote. The last few weeks are where it's at. Not right now.

elantan

Shaka_Zulu wrote: »

What are you talking about?

You carry on laughing because you won't be laughing for long.

The people of Scotland are sick to death of this shenanigans.

Can anyone tell me how much this pipe dream is costing us? Money that could be better spent on the whole of Scotland not just on the SNP vanity project

I'm people of Scotland and I ain't sick to death of it ... and I ain't alone either ... there's a few of us that are the same ... ohhh at least 50% of us ...

Shaka_Zulu

elantan wrote: »

ohhh at least 50% of us ...

In your dreams!

mollycat

Shaka_Zulu wrote: »

In your dreams!

Yep, ignore propaganda on here from people blinded by self interest or default position of ingrained grudge, and dissatisfaction.......most of the people of Scotland are sick to death of it all.

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

However May has already conceded the principle by saying 'Now is not the time'. She hasn't said the Scottish Govt doesn't have the right to call one. As indeed did Cameron in 2011 by agreeing that Scots did have the right to vote on their own constitutional future. The only item in question now is actually the timing and whether May can use Brexit as political cover for delaying a fully legal referendum happening.

I expect the Scottish Govt will go through the courts to clarify matters. There has to be a way for Scots voters to express their democratic wishes re the union. If not a referendum then what ? Either May comes out with a definite No it's not happening at all. Or else all we're really debating is actually the timing of the vote itself. Sturgeon's mandate is for the current Scottish parliament sitting, not in 5 or 6 years time.

May is going to be under considerable pressure now to clarify the UK's constitutional arrangements. But understand that there IS a difference between a Catalan type referendum. And a fully legal referendum taking place in Scotland without a Section 30.

But for now we're only talking timing.

No-one is talking about anything definitive, we have yet to see Sturgeon ask for a referendum formally and yet to see the formal response from May. We shall see what happens.

In the meantime maybe the UK Government can hold a UK-wide advisory referendum asking, for example, if people think an Independence referendum should be held during Brexit negotiations. Then we will be able to see what the Scots want from their part of the response. I'm sure the SNP would be interested in the result. Oh no, I forgot, they're not remotely interested.


No I'm not being serious.

mollycat

Given the type of people we're dealing with; no surprise.

No interest in the future wellbeing of their fellow neighbours.

No interest in respecting democratic decisions.

No interest in accepting basic economic fact.

No interest in participating in logical debate.

Only interested in 50%+1.....and damn the consequences.

Shaka_Zulu

I have a plan for the Nats how about you holding your referendum on your own (save the rest of us the bother of going to the polls) and if you get 50%+ of the electorate then you win and we will surrender to the SNP.

How does that sound?

Tell you what I'll be fairer than that, to take in to account those that have died, moved etc lets make it 48%+.

Then you guys can box away quietly letting the rest of get on with our lives.

Can't be fairer than that!

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

No-one is talking about anything definitive, we have yet to see Sturgeon ask for a referendum formally and yet to see the formal response from May. We shall see what happens.

In the meantime maybe the UK Government can hold a UK-wide advisory referendum asking, for example, if people think an Independence referendum should be held during Brexit negotiations. Then we will be able to see what the Scots want from their part of the response. I'm sure the SNP would be interested in the result. Oh no, I forgot, they're not remotely interested.


No I'm not being serious.

The problem you have with the above is that you're talking of the here and now. If this whole Brexit thing turns out to be a very bad idea.. then there might well be a great many more Scots absolutely gagging for another referendum. Breaking down Sturgeon's door and begging for one before Scotland has to leave the EU.

You just don't know. And it would be very premature indeed to shut that option down now should Scots voters/businesses and others with vested interested in remaining within the Single Market/EU wish it so.

However as said, at the moment May has apparently conceded the principle and the debate is focusing on timing. There's no way that Sturgeon will wait beyond the current Scottish parliament sitting dates wise though as she has a big enough mandate to go ahead as of now.

.string.

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Looks like the Greens in Holyrood have become the Lib Dem's of 2010 today.

Their timeline is on fire with people angry at what they did today.

In my book, not just in Hollywood, although especially there because in voting for the SNP referendum, they have not been true to what they said at their election (respecting the people etc).

But in my view the ,Greens in the rest of the UK should now be shunned. There are three basic areas where I have a problem with the Greens.
1 Their arrogance in thinking they have a monopoly on caring about the Planet
2 Their policies which out-fluffy the lib-dems and are left of left
And now the final straw
3. Their support for the break-up of the UK.

They can go in the dust bin

beecher2

.string. wrote: »

In my book, not just in Hollywood, although especially there because in voting for the SNP referendum, they have not been true to what they said at their election (respecting the people etc).

But in my view the ,Greens in the rest of the UK should now be shunned. There are three basic areas where I have a problem with the Greens.
1 Their arrogance in thinking they have a monopoly on caring about the Planet
2 Their policies which out-fluffy the lib-dems and are left of left
And now the final straw
3. Their support for the break-up of the UK.

They can go in the dust bin

Doesn't sound like you'd vote for them anyway? To be fair, Scottish Greens are a completely separate party to the party in England and Wales.