The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

islandannie

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I don't think it would be a paradise no. But I do think that politics is diverging to the point where most Scots now consider Holyrood and it's day to day workings more important than what is taking place in Westminster. This has been amplified even more so since the General Election and the recent Holyrood one. To the point where no big name UK Labour or Conservative Leader, MP, cabinet or shadow cabinet member ventured north of the border for the entire duration of the campaign. No one really noticed.

Scottish Tories pretended that Westminster had nothing much to do with Scotland, and so did Scottish Labour. The problems will start for them when Ruth Davidson has to defend general UK Conservative policies, and when Kezia Dugdale is starkly faced with the fact that she can bleat on all she likes about being against Trident.. but it's actually elsewhere the decision will be made and her calls are all irrelevant.They can't keep up the pretence forever, and sooner or later it will catch up with them both.

Another thing you've missed is that the SNP aren't constantly agitating for another referendum. Even with a Brexit scenario Sturgeon has been very careful always to state ( whatever the headlines screech ) that a Brexit may 'lead to calls' for a second referendum. It's the Scots that will be doing the calling. Not the SNP who won't go for it unless it's there to be won.

It's interesting just how many posts on here associate the SNP and independence as if it's something only the party wish to do..but blithely and completely ignore what Scots electorate might wish or call for at some point in the future. ONLY when the Scots electorate want to go for it, will another independence referendum happen. It's not the SNP's 'call' to make. Just to facilitate. Sturgeon won't go for it again until it's there for the taking and she's been very consistent in her stance since 2014.[/QUOTE

But what about the oil :eek:

islandannie

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Am sorry, I personally gave up answering your posts a very long time ago. No offence.

But what about the oil?:)

Shakethedisease

islandannie wrote: »

But what about the oil?:)

Probably needs changed in our fryer but will be fine for another batch or two.

islandannie

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Probably needs changed in our fryer but will be fine for another batch or two.

You based your argument for independence on the price of oil.
Please have the dignity to apologise to the Scottish children whose lives would have been blighted by your ideology.

I take pride in myself as a Scot who protected future generations of Scottish children from the disasrtrous policy of narrow nationalism.

I will look after my children while you will have to apologise to yours.

Shakethedisease

islandannie wrote: »

You based your argument for independence on the price of oil.
Please have the dignity to apologise to the Scottish children whose lives would have been blighted by your ideology.

I take pride in myself as a Scot who protected future generations of Scottish children from the disasrtrous policy of narrow nationalism.

I will look after my children while you will have to apologise to yours.

You seem to have confused me with someone else. If I'd based my argument on the price of oil I would've given up long ago. I posted the oil price edging back up on this forum, because I know how much Generali and Hamish like to keep up with the latest prices and post it here, usually in big fonts, themselves. I wouldn't want them to miss anything.

Me, I just think Scottish politics would be better placed in a Scottish parliament. The economics would adjust accordingly because once the decision is made, then everyone would just have to get on with it. My children will make up their own minds. Four out of five of them will be voting age in a years time. Three already are. They can make their own minds up.

I'll leave this for now with you. You're getting a little flag wavy and emotional. I just enjoy the debate.

Generali

Oil's spot price, which somewhere around nobody pays except in financial transactions, is up to around $50/bbl. Scotland was roughly solvent at a price of around $120/bbl although that price required has probably risen as a result of the drop off in investment since the oil price fell. TBH at the moment there probably isn't an oil price at which Scotland is solvent although a period of high prices should lead to the investment spigot being turned back on.

The problem that Scotland's oil industry faces have gone nowhere:

- Unconventional oil is cheaper to get out of the ground and more flexible than the big, expensive, very long term North Sea projects
- Despite some problems with supply recently, more oil is being produced than consumed still

The first thing is the killer for the Scottish economy. Ultimately Scotland is either going to have to find a cheaper way to get oil out of the North Sea (unlikely in such a harsh environment) or diversify her economy away from oil to things such as tourism, financial and other services and food & drink. It's hard to see how an independent Scotland with truly disastrous finances would be able to facilitate such a change.

.string.

Shakey wrote:

islandannie wrote:

You based your argument for independence on the price of oil.
Please have the dignity to apologise to the Scottish children whose lives would have been blighted by your ideology.

I take pride in myself as a Scot who protected future generations of Scottish children from the disasrtrous policy of narrow nationalism.
I will look after my children while you will have to apologise to yours.

You seem to have confused me with someone else. If I'd based my argument on the price of oil I would've given up long ago. I posted the oil price edging back up on this forum, because I know how much Generali and Hamish like to keep up with the latest prices and post it here, usually in big fonts, themselves. I wouldn't want them to miss anything.

Me, I just think Scottish politics would be better placed in a Scottish parliament. The economics would adjust accordingly because once the decision is made, then everyone would just have to get on with it. My children will make up their own minds. Four out of five of them will be voting age in a years time. Three already are. They can make their own minds up.

I'll leave this for now with you. You're getting a little flag wavy and emotional. I just enjoy the debate.

That was a bit wide of the mark, Shakey.
You and the SNP based the argument for leaving on an economic case that depended totally on the price of oil. Now that crutch has collapsed, there is a scrabbling around for a new crutch, the new magic word being diversification. In this you are fortunate to be assisted by the rest of us who want all parts of the UK to have a healthy economy.

In the meantime the SNP needs to do their day job and use the new powers arriving, rather than continuing with the broken record of whinge and excuses about levers.

You accuse islandannie of being flag wavy!!! You of all people! islandannie is no doubt rightly proud of her Scottish identity, but she has a broader, and pragmatic, view which is not restricted by the Collective SNP Cocoon. Not that I dislike the existence of the latter ... while it is the SNP Engine, it is also their Achilles heel.

I look forward to the economy of Scotland improving even further. Apart from that being good in itself, a contented population is less likely to ditch a good thing. But that's the tricky thing for the SNP isn't it. To use the new powers successfully is to damage their case, ... Far better (for them alone) to back peddle and whinge, blaming Westminster all the way.

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

You seem to have confused me with someone else. If I'd based my argument on the price of oil I would've given up long ago.

That's why Salmond took a back seat. As was his only plan. Now the disciples are left waffling with no substance. The question of a self sufficient economy isn't going to go away. Politicians will however.

ruggedtoast

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I don't think it would be a paradise no. But I do think that politics is diverging to the point where most Scots now consider Holyrood and it's day to day workings more important than what is taking place in Westminster. This has been amplified even more so since the General Election and the recent Holyrood one. To the point where no big name UK Labour or Conservative Leader, MP, cabinet or shadow cabinet member ventured north of the border for the entire duration of the campaign. No one really noticed.

Scottish Tories pretended that Westminster had nothing much to do with Scotland, and so did Scottish Labour. The problems will start for them when Ruth Davidson has to defend general UK Conservative policies, and when Kezia Dugdale is starkly faced with the fact that she can bleat on all she likes about being against Trident.. but it's actually elsewhere the decision will be made and her calls are all irrelevant.They can't keep up the pretence forever, and sooner or later it will catch up with them both.

Another thing you've missed is that the SNP aren't constantly agitating for another referendum. Even with a Brexit scenario Sturgeon has been very careful always to state ( whatever the headlines screech ) that a Brexit may 'lead to calls' for a second referendum. It's the Scots that will be doing the calling. Not the SNP who won't go for it unless it's there to be won.

It's interesting just how many posts on here associate the SNP and independence as if it's something only the party wish to do..but blithely and completely ignore what Scots electorate might wish or call for at some point in the future. ONLY when the Scots electorate want to go for it, will another independence referendum happen. It's not the SNP's 'call' to make. Just to facilitate. Sturgeon won't go for it again until it's there for the taking and she's been very consistent in her stance since 2014.

You as a Corbyn supporter should at least get the jist of it. He's looking to win over the electorate, members of his own party is doing the sabotaging. Yet it's the party infighting that dominates the headlines as if the electorate don't matter. Don't make the mistake of confusing party politics and headlines, with what the electorate actually want when it comes to Scotland either. Only independence support rising will push the SNP into another referendum. Not the other way round.

Are you saying that the SNP don't now want independence, or just that they won't try and call another referendum unless they are sure they can win?

I am not sure what Scottish people believe about Holyrood and Westminster but if they want to vote for real change in 2020 they had better get back behind Labour as the UK government, because your part of the country gave a pretty decisive vote in the referendum to keep Westminster as your seat of government.

Holyrood is essentially a glorified town council. Scotland appears to have chosen the worst of all possible worlds. It demanded a referendum but then chose the status quo, then proceeded to remove itself from the actual decision making apparatus of the status quo, reducing massively the influence it once had.

You nationalists are making a bad situation about 100 times worse for yourselves, and anyone who doesnt want Prime Minister Osborne, because all this SNP calling the shots baloney is a total scam. All you are doing is weakening the Labour Party who are our only chance of booting the Tories out.

Stop it.

Generali

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Are you saying that the SNP don't now want independence, or just that they won't try and call another referendum unless they are sure they can win?

I am not sure what Scottish people believe about Holyrood and Westminster but if they want to vote for real change in 2020 they had better get back behind Labour as the UK government, because your part of the country gave a pretty decisive vote in the referendum to keep Westminster as your seat of government.

Holyrood is essentially a glorified town council. Scotland appears to have chosen the worst of all possible worlds. It demanded a referendum but then chose the status quo, then proceeded to remove itself from the actual decision making apparatus of the status quo, reducing massively the influence it once had.

You nationalists are making a bad situation about 100 times worse for yourselves, and anyone who doesnt want Prime Minister Osborne, because all this SNP calling the shots baloney is a total scam. All you are doing is weakening the Labour Party who are our only chance of booting the Tories out.

Stop it.

The trouble is that the Labour Party treated Scotland in general and Glasgow in particular as their fief. That's tainted the Labour Party in Scotland for a generation I suspect and may well mean an end to Labour Governments.