The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

beecher2

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

No.

I won't stop dismissing people as idiots if they prove that they are.

Right now the independence argument is as solid an argument as me claiming the moon is made of cheese and that you should believe me because I say so.

That may be your benchmark for vertias and facts, it's not mine.

You crack on then, fail to see the point in you shouting 'idot' at members of an electorate you're not even a member of, but whatever makes you happy. Maybe it will be therapeutic when the realities of Brexit hit home.

TrickyTree83

beecher2 wrote: »

You crack on then, fail to see the point in you shouting 'idot' at members of an electorate you're not even a member of, but whatever makes you happy. Maybe it will be therapeutic when the realities of Brexit hit home.

What realities?

You're not putting forward any argument, you're just asking me not to tell people they're being idiots because they've got no argument or evidence for what they propose is the best course of action.

Why would I stop telling people they've got no argument, made no argument and therefore the position they hold is stupid and the evidence proves them wrong, therefore they are idiots if they do not change their opinion based on evidence and facts? I've been saying the same for a while, present an argument for independence that works, that's enough to change peoples minds because at the moment the opposition to independence has got such an easy ride in terms of evidence and facts, if independence wins it'll be based on feelings, misinformed opinions and lies.

Hamish has pointed out that Scotland will be screwed financially by voting for independence. Yet if he gets the chance he's going to do it anyway. He'll have to make peace with that if independence wins and people in Scotland suffer for it. If your healthcare disappears because you can't afford it, if your services suffer, your tourism, your financial services, your manufacturing, your agriculture, your tax revenue, your deficit, your debt, the list goes on and on. The independence argument is so narrow minded, it basically focuses on what the guy in that video said. "We hate the Tories and I want to visit my dad in Italy!". Sound thinking, present a different argument or clearly he's an idiot. And if you agree with the thinking that people should vote Yes so he can visit his dad in Italy, you both hate the Conservatives and you want to virtue signal that you're in the EU too whilst people become homeless, jobless and hungry, go ahead, I'll still call you an idiot for doing so.

sss555s

Only an idiot would call someone an idiot for having different views than them.

This is supposed to be a debating forum, not an abusing forum!

TrickyTree83

sss555s wrote: »

Only an idiot would call someone an idiot for having different views than them.

This is supposed to be a debating forum, not an abusing forum!

It's not abuse.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/idiot

idiot
NOUN

informal
stupid person.
Example
1.archaic A person of low intelligence.

Origin
Middle English (denoting a person of low intelligence): via Old French from Latin idiota ignorant person, from Greek idiōtēs private person, layman, ignorant person, from idios own, private.

If you refuse to acknowledge the truth and evidence, and you consign your country to economic ruin, it's not abuse it's merely an observation.

You yourself have demonstrated on many occasions in this thread and now others that you have little understanding of Barnett consequentials. I've tried to put the information in front of you many times as best I can and you persist in believing that Scotland is a net tax payer to the UK Treasury and due to projects like HS2 Scotland loses out. The truth, and the evidence shows that's not the case and that Scotland is a fiscal beneficiary of the UK and projects like HS2. Yet you refuse to change your opinion, is that the behaviour of an idiot?

mollycat

sss555s wrote: »

Only an idiot would call someone an idiot for having different views than them.

This is supposed to be a debating forum, not an abusing forum!

Except that's not what's happening here; read the posts.

Good tactic though; get hung up on TT using the "I" word rather than addressing the issues he raises

ps I though the video lacked coherence as well.....looked like propaganda to me.

Shakethedisease

This has certainly got a few unionist commentators calling for EU nationals not to be given a vote in any future ref. Bit of a row on Twitter over some comments made yesterday.

Poll by @PolishExpress (UK-Polish media) on Scottish independence after the Brexit vote: 89% Yes, 11% No.

181,000 EU27 nationals live in Scotland. With growing Brexit fears, they'll be important swing voters in #indyref2.

Yes needed 200,000 last time to cross the 50% mark. And I don't think traditional polls focus very much on those born outside the UK ( since they now also tend to weight by recalled EU ref vote which EU nationals couldn't vote in ). EU nationals were 57.1 % for No last time.

TrickyTree83

mollycat wrote: »

Except that's not what's happening here; read the posts.

Good tactic though; get hung up on TT using the "I" word rather than addressing the issues he raises

ps I though the video lacked coherence as well.....looked like propaganda to me.

I suspect I'll get PPR'd for this, clearly I chose a word that they feel is a pejorative term.

Yet I'm merely pointing out that persistent ignorance when you've been proven incorrect is a defining characteristic of the term. Maybe willful ignorance or denialism would have been better?

Shakethedisease

Guy Verhofstadt was quite encouraging with his comments too.

the European Parliament’s chief Brexit negotiator has told The National, Europe “cannot afford to lose” Scotland.

Guy Verhofstadt said Europe is well aware that a majority of Scots voted to stay within the bloc in last year’s referendum.
“Europe hasn’t forgotten that a large majority of the Scottish people voted to remain,” Verhofstadt said. “We need the Scottish people and their firm European beliefs.

http://www.thenational.scot/news/15089828.Europe_s_chief_Brexit_negotiator_says___We_need_the_Scottish_people_____we_cannot_afford_to_lose_that_/

beecher2

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

I suspect I'll get PPR'd for this, clearly I chose a word that they feel is a pejorative term.

Obviously it is a pejorative term and an insult to call someone else an idiot or stupid because you don't agree with their thought process. I doubt if you'll get PPR'd though, wouldn't imagine anyone on here is personally insulted by your inability to accept someone else's views. I am intrigued as to why anyone would believe that the future can be spelled out in a series of facts, but I certainly wouldn't call you an idiot for it.

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

What realities?

You're not putting forward any argument, you're just asking me not to tell people they're being idiots because they've got no argument or evidence for what they propose is the best course of action.

Why would I stop telling people they've got no argument, made no argument and therefore the position they hold is stupid and the evidence proves them wrong, therefore they are idiots if they do not change their opinion based on evidence and facts? I've been saying the same for a while, present an argument for independence that works, that's enough to change peoples minds because at the moment the opposition to independence has got such an easy ride in terms of evidence and facts, if independence wins it'll be based on feelings, misinformed opinions and lies.

But people changing their minds IS a reality. Folks have gone from Yes to No and from No to Yes. All the polls have shown there is loads of churn going on right now in the middle of the spectrum regarding Scottish independence.

Why would they need to seek out actors for something that is actually happening ? And it does have to be said that for some of these people there is the air of finally accepting the inevitable and throwing themselves into the pro indy mix with a lot of enthusiasm. Simon Pia, Mike Dailly ( <-- very solid and active No activists last ref ) and folks like the two in the videos especially.

Hamish has pointed out that Scotland will be screwed financially by voting for independence. Yet if he gets the chance he's going to do it anyway. He'll have to make peace with that if independence wins and people in Scotland suffer for it. If your healthcare disappears because you can't afford it, if your services suffer, your tourism, your financial services, your manufacturing, your agriculture, your tax revenue, your deficit, your debt, the list goes on and on. The independence argument is so narrow minded, it basically focuses on what the guy in that video said. "We hate the Tories and I want to visit my dad in Italy!". Sound thinking, present a different argument or clearly he's an idiot. And if you agree with the thinking that people should vote Yes so he can visit his dad in Italy, you both hate the Conservatives and you want to virtue signal that you're in the EU too whilst people become homeless, jobless and hungry, go ahead, I'll still call you an idiot for doing so.

You sound like an ardent remainer arguing against a Leave vote last June to be honest.