The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

mollycat

Think I saw on a different board (cant find it now) Clapton had been PPR'd.

Not sure if that's right, hope not.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

It's Theresa May that's talking about leaving the EU with no deal rather than a bad deal. So Daniel is right to bring it up, plenty more will be should it happen.

Scotland still has possible EFTA/EEA and EU options and could potentially end up having to go with the former if trade ( ie rUK get a really bad deal or none at all ) in order to preserve as much trade with both the EU and rUK as possible. It needn't be one or the other. I suspect Sturgeon will wait and see which way negotiations are going before presenting what she and the SNP feel is the best course of action for Scotland's future trade options. Other pro indy groups will of course have differing opinions on the matter.


It's not whatabouttery to point out that whatever deal the UK leaves the EU with in two years time will have a profound effect on Scotland whatever that deal, or no deal ends up being.

Sturgeon is trying to mange the risk and wants BOTH markets. She'll accept whatever is likely to cause the least initial damage and shock to the Scottish economy as it is. Staying within the UK, outwith the Single Market is a real risk to the Scottish economy too.



No, just like you don't accept that it's not ok to call people idiots, then I don't accept that Scotland at the present time can be discussed without discussing the UK and the consequences ( both political and economic ) which stem from Scotland's current status within the UK.

There has been a Scottish thread in this particular area of the forum for as long as I've been here. I didn't start any of them apart from this one and I didn't choose it's placement within this forum. But it does seem sensible however to keep threads on particular niche interests ( Scottish politics/economics ) in one place. So that those will little interest can scroll past without having to endure 20 or 30 different threads discussing the same issues in other areas of the forum.

ps where's Clapton gone ? Hope he's ok ???

Clapton's been PPR'd.

So a propaganda video from a guy claiming to be called Daniel, and to have gone to University in Scotland and working in the oil industry there (not for long I imagine) who states his opinion that the UK will get no deal from the EU (because the UK won't accept a bad deal, why would you? Sensible negotiating position to take) is correct to switch from No to Yes because he wants to visit his dad in Italy, and virtue signal over his EU credentials whilst completely ignoring the hurt that WTO would cause to the Scottish economy when four times as much trade is done with rUK than is done with the EU?

How can anyone informed take that seriously?

It's a propaganda piece, I think he's an actor because I don't believe someone can genuinely be that stupid.

If there's no deal, it doesn't matter if you're in the EU or just the EEA, it's WTO terms or no trade at that point. And if there is a good deal, the hurt associated to your 11% of trade with the EU will be minuscule, and yet you advocate for MORE hurt than that (risk to 64% and 5.5% of GDP border effect) to become independent. Madness! Absolute madness.

You always ignore the arguments I make, like the -5.5% GDP drop on the institution of a border between Scotland and rUK called the 'Border Effect'. It's not me saying it, I've just brought it to your attention that scholars and academics have looked at the phenomenon that is the 'Border Effect', it exists and it hampers trade. In Scotland's case it'll be circa 5.5% of current GDP.

So even in your (and Nicola's?) utopian vision of deals with everyone as iScotland, you're already going to suffer.

Like I keep saying - take on board all of the evidence, will Scotland suffer a 5.5% drop in GDP in the even of a good deal on Brexit? Is the Single Market that important that you need to risk 5.5% of GDP + more if there's a bad deal/WTO terms?

Pro-independence is an incredibly stupid position to take economically.

mrginge

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Them's the breaks I suppose.

Indeed they are.

Confused as to why this anger of the migrants hasn't revealed itself in polling since last June though.

Maybe they are shy.

TrickyTree83

Moto2 wrote: »

It isn't always about the bottom line though.
I've just (18 months ago) taken a job on half the salary I was on, despite offers of even more because I thought I'd be happier.
Every sum I did told me it was a poor decision but you know what?
It's the best thing I've ever done with work, yes, we're poorer now and have to make savings but we're much happier.
If the Scots want indy on the strength of gut feeling, good luck to them, it just a pity for them that the woeful SNP are driving it.

Slightly different if you're talking about your country's ability to provide cancer treatment for example, or any other healthcare treatment and other such aberrations that pro-independence supporters want to pretend do not exist that require a strong economy to provide for.

How long do you think North Koreans wait for MRI scans? Or their breast cancer screening programme? Their economy is in the toilet, do you think it affects their standard of living?

Or Greeks even?

Sorry, but I don't think your personal employment is indicative of the general state of an economy and the society around it.

kabayiri

mrginge wrote: »

Yes I know.
Be a serious injustice to not let them vote second time around.

They will, as you suggest, vote for independence in their droves now. Purely based on sticking it to the tories and with absolutely no need to worry about the consequences.

A truly great day in Scottish history.

The question seems to have changed though.

Shakey is very clear that now, it is a choice between Unions.

Choose either the UK or the EU, which union you prefer.

I'm not sure where this leaves the pure independence fan, determined to go it alone. Will they be given their own option?

elantan

mollycat wrote: »

Sturgeon doesn't speak for Scotland either!

She does you know .... she really does

mollycat

elantan wrote: »

She does you know .... she really does

The way Mrs Thatcher spoke for you throughout the 80's?

Same thing hen

elantan

Aye she did speak for me ... hated her guts and delighted she ain't here ... but I can't deny the fact she did ...

Suck it up hen you may no like it but hey Sturgeon speaking for you ain't changing anytime soon

mrginge

kabayiri wrote: »

The question seems to have changed though.

Shakey is very clear that now, it is a choice between Unions.

Choose either the UK or the EU, which union you prefer.

I'm not sure where this leaves the pure independence fan, determined to go it alone. Will they be given their own option?

I'd advise against personalising the debate by assuming you know what shakey thinks.

Shakey is just the conduit through which the facts flow.

The facts have been presented. And they are that the referendum will be fought on hatred and division. Regardless of what an individual believes about the future direction of Scotland, they only need to decide 'do you hate the tories'.

mollycat

mrginge wrote: »

I'd advise against personalising the debate by assuming you know what shakey thinks.

Shakey is just the conduit through which the facts flow.

The facts have been presented. And they are that the referendum will be fought on hatred and division. Regardless of what an individual believes about the future direction of Scotland, they only need to decide 'do you hate the tories'.

and do you want you and your family to live in relative poverty, (to rUK) from this moment on.